19th Century Only Auction

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Posted By: Paul

Just curious. Who won the Burkett?

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Wasn't me, but that was a pretty hefty price tag.
-Rhett

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Posted By: Rick McQuillan

This was an interesting auction. Some of the prices were strong, but 26 lots didn't receive any bids and 46 lots closed at the opening bid. I thought that the T206 Demmitt might have gone a little higher, and the T206 variations didn't do as well as I thought they might, especially on the Nodgrass.

The only card that I bid on, the Tango McQuillan, went for about twice as much as I expected.

Rick

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Posted By: rob

I find in Seth's auction the opening bids are often rather high in relation to what the card is worth. More clearly, it is not priced at the cards' worth, rather close to it so it reduces the amount of bids substantially compared to other auction houses. Not suggesting this is a positive or negative just an observation of his auction style.

My one winning lot.

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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

Whilst there were a plethora of interesting cards in the auction, there were very few
truly rare cards, and the vast majority of the cards offered were in low to middle grades.

In addition to the previous observation regarding the number of cards that did not receive
a single bid or sold at the Opening Bid, we note that only 15 lots were able to double their opening
bid.

In the other auctions we track (REA, Mastro, Mile High, Memory Lane and Goodwin) about 90% of the
final bids are double the opening bid. We have not undertaken the calculation for the Sloate
Auctions, but a quick look indicates that more than 65% of the lots in the last two auctions
doubled the opening bid.

The strategy of opening bids at close to market value appears to discourage a number of collectors
from bidding.

Prices on the few ultra high grade cards that were auctioned were low. We were surprised to see that
a PSA 7 Fatima 200 sold for 75% of the price of a PSA6 of the same card- and less than half the price
of any of the three PSA 7 T 200 sales that had taken place previously.

We attribute the relative quiet bidding in this auction to

(1) The Economic Crisis
(2) High Opening Bid Strategy
(3) Lack of many "star" cards which attract attention and publicity.

Your thoughts?


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: Matt

"The strategy of opening bids at close to market value appears to discourage a number of collectors
from bidding."

Of course it does - less people bid because the MB amount was already close to true market value.

Does it really matter if the item gets to TMV in 1 bid or 20?

My Trade/Sale Page

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hi Bruce- not a big deal, but I think nearly all my lots end at double or triple the opening bid, but that is irrelevant because I start them very low. It still doesn't reflect whether the lot did well or not.

I don't want to speak for Seth, but I think I understand his strategy. Because the market is down and prices are unpredictable, he may have sensed too much of a risk in the "start low, and the lots will reach their level" approach. And rather than play around with hidden reserves, he took the high road and just started the lots at the minimum price he was willing take. That does at least provide a greater level of transparency.

Yes, the downside is it turns bidders off somewhat. I went through the auction pretty carefully but found the starters a little too high for me, but I am not a collector. We may start seeing more of these high openers as long as the market is down.

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Posted By: peter ullman

I won the Tango Eggs Mcquillan...and thought the price was fair. Many opening bids seemed high...esp on nadja's..some seemingly bargains on e94's.

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Posted By: leon

I can empathize with the strategy Seth employed. IN this economy I think many times I would rather not sell something than take a huge loss. Anyone can talk about the right or wrong way to run an auction but until you have to deal with consignors that are looking at taking a big loss, due to the economy, then you don't fully understand the issue. I don't know that there is a perfect way to do it but I certainly understand it. And of course there were lots that had a little higher starting bid, maybe 60%-80% of retail, that didn't double, but as Matt said....that is expected with this strategy. I applaud his transperancy. I am sure Scott and I will have to do something for our consignors too. My thought is I don't mind taking a little loss but if I have the chance not to take a 50% loss on a card I would rather not sell it, many times. Again, I think there is no right or wrong answer and you will see many more auctions doing this. BTW, many auctions not doing this, are enticing friends to bid for consignors and buy their cards back anyway (not intentionally, mind you, but it's happening).....so they don't take a huge loss. I prefer the transparency methods....regards

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Posted By: Matt

Leon - excellent points. Your comments actually go well with the other thread running regarding eBay BINs. Minimum Bids just under market or reasonable BINs are two transparent ways where sellers can feel comfortable listing their cards AND buyers can have confidence nothing fishy is going on. Some auction houses may offer or invite other ways that protect sellers, as you mention.

My Trade/Sale Page

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Posted By: Robert Klevens

I consigned a few lots to this auction and was quite pleased with the results.

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Posted By: Tim Kindler

"Whilst there were a plethera of interesting cards in the auction, there were few truly rare cards, and the vast majority of the cards offered were in low to middle grades"

Mr. Dorskind, I don't know if you were meaning anything disrespectful by this comment, and the comments by me that follow are not meant to be disrespectful to you, but this is the PERFECT auction for collectors like me who love the hobby with a passion, but can't consistently dish out $5 to $50 Grand on cards.

I enjoy the fact that 35 bids don't have to be placed on item before it reaches its market value. I enjoy the quieter auctions, so the vast majority of collectors like me have a fighting chance with our wallets to pick up something we like...even in 20's and 30's condition.

Seth, nice auction! I look forward to receiving another OLD PUT E98 to add to my collection once you have received my payment.

Happy Collecting to All,
Tim Kindler

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Posted By: jay wolt

For me, the higher starting bid probably helped me win my lot.
It was started about 70-80% of past performances. So with me
locking in the opening bid, there was virtually no room for the
next bidder to get a great deal, since the next bid increment w/
juice would have propelled the lot at a much higher level.
So it sat w/ my lone bid and I'm grateful for that.

Here is my win, a high grade (for that issue) N184 Kimball's Champion

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Posted By: Robert Klevens

Jay-
In a previous auction an SGC 50 sold for $807.
You got a good deal on that card.
http://www.19thcenturyonly.org/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=4126

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Posted By: bigfish

Just like in many auctions some cards do well and there are some deals. There were several rare cards in that auction. The Nadja Crawford is the only one known, the Nadja Plank is super tough, and the Nadja Wagner is super tough. I think the auction did well and Seth did a nice job with it. I had a few cards in the auction the went higher than I expected.

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Posted By: Bruce Kasarda

Paul, I am with you, who won the Burkett. I think it was a good buy, how many Burkett cards are there for a collector. I also liked Seth's Auction and would like to see more like it. Seth's, Barry's, and Leon's Auctions along with the BST are going to make E Bay obsolete. If only I could figure out how to put scans on the BST....

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Posted By: Sandy Schwartz

Nice selection of cards and prefer not having 35 bids to get to market value.



Jay, I share your sentiments on the N184. I was first to bid on the N184 O'Neil but somebody came over top. Good price on the Darling, congrats!



Here's my new additions from last night:









Sandy Schwartz

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Posted By: Anonymous

Geez...

aside from the aforementioned rare cards, I don't see N321, M131 and E104-3's at auction every day, regardless of condition. I thought this auction had an awesome array of very collectible "rare" cards and would have gone after more of them if I had the $$.

.......sort of a catch 22.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I'd have to agree. I'd rather see some of the rarities in Seth's auction than five PSA 8 red Cobbs. I thought this was his best auction ever. When do you get to see some of these cards?

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Posted By: Rob D.

I suppose if you rely heavily on population reports and sometimes seemingly arbitrary numbers on a flip when determining rarity, then you might have a different opinion than those who pay more attention to other factors.

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Posted By: quan

tim congrats on your 34th old put e98.

i also like seth & his auction. i agree with the sentiment that while the starting bid on some lots are fairly priced to the current market, but unless you're quick to the draw the 2nd bid may not be. maybe seth can balance and perfect that aspect and get more bids/$$$ next time.

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Posted By: Tim Kindler

Quan,
I hope you are just kidding and I'll take it as a friendly rub. I'm not sure where the jab might have come from.? I'm sorry if I only chime in when it come to caramel cards, E98s in particular, because they are my collecting passion. I'm just happy and prould of the little collection that I have been working on, in particular the OLD Puts that I own. By the way, I have 5 now, NOT 34, Wagner, Young, Collins, Brown, and McGraw.
No ill feelings here. Hope the same is on your end. I enjoy seeing the nice cards in your collection from your posts.
Tim Kindler

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Posted By: quan

hey tim no dig at all...i know you're very passionate about those. i like using hyperboles, i'm just bad at conveying humor over the internet (obligatory so no more misunderstanding).

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Posted By: Tim Kindler

Quan,
No problem. I get into trouble at work all the time when I email people because feelings can easily be misinterpretted when you can't hear the tone of people's voices or the expressions on their faces when things are stated through written word. I'm sarcastic to at times and it can sometimes be misunderstood. Anyways, good talking to you, and it is nice to see all the threads today that are focussed on cards, not political stuff. Don't get me wrong I am a passionate conservative, but I refrain from getting into written battles over politics on our board. I like to debate face to face.
Happy Collecting!
Tim Kindler

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Posted By: Seth Nagdeman

I wanted to say thanks to all for making this another great auction.

As pointed out, the opening bids were higher in this auction than in the past. This was done to protect prices falling below a level of comfort. I regularly keep up with recent eBay auction prices and I felt that it was necessary to meet the times. Opening a $5,000 card at $900 or so (as I usually do) was a risk (at this time) for me and my consignors. I felt that the "low opening bid and let it ride" was just a little too risky.

A lot of thought went into raising the opening bids for the January auction. I am happy with the way it worked out. It will not always be that way and when the economy comes back strong the "low opening bid and let it ride" will be back.

There was a great collection of cards that came together, and congratulations to everyone that either bought or sold in the auction.

Best,
Seth

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Tim, keep an eye out for Quan. He and Rob D are the most sarcastic posters on this board. I simply do not understand how guys can be that sarcastic. I'm always stunned by it.

<-----insert smiley here (God, I miss Chao sometimes, I never get to do this anymore)

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Posted By: Rob D.

??????????????????

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Posted By: Tim Kindler

Jeff, Thanks for the encouraging words.



Rob D. I laughed out loud when I saw your ????????????????.



Seriously, I have been reading and participating on this board for about 3 years now. I'm on it everyday, although I would consider myself more of a lurker/reader than a poster. Sometimes I see some of us going at it pretty good, but for the most part, I know that most of it is in good fun/ competition, etc.. As an earlier thread stated that we are like our own little family. Some of us get on each other's nerves more than others, but for the most part every man and woman on the board stands up for what is right....(or at least what they think is right... like in those political threads that I like to stay out of)



Happy Collecting All



Oh, and back to what this thread was origionally about: Congratulations to the buyers and sellers of Seth's latest 19th Century Only Auction! I loved it!



Tim Kindler

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Posted By: Jim VB

"He and Rob D are the most sarcastic posters on this board. I simply do not understand how guys can be that sarcastic. I'm always stunned by it."


Pot, meet kettle.



Jeff,

Are you awarding foam fingers for this position?




or

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Posted By: Jeff LIchtman

Jim, how else do you think I became so capable of determining the sarcasm level of Rob and Quan?

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Posted By: Rob D.

This explains why Quan and I are never able to complete any deals on the B/S/T. We always get caught in an endless cycle of exchanging e-mails, each of us not knowing whether the other is serious or not.

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Posted By: Matt

ROFL

Rob - that was excellent. Thanks for the mid-day laugh.

My Trade/Sale Page

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Posted By: quan

rob are you being sarcastic now? i can't tell...iirc a few years ago i sold you a '64 topps indians common at cost for $3.50 plus shipping with a money order. i can check my record again but i'm sure that's correct.