Old Judge 20 box

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

Hello everyone!

I was just on Jon Canfield's tobacco and baseball web site...and now I'm wondering about something...so I guess this is a question for you directly Jon.



The Old Judge slide and shell box that I've had in my collection for 20+ years now is a "20"...tax stamp Series of 1883 with an awesome Oct 1, 1887 overstamp on it.



Why isn't this box mentioned anywhere on the web site? Cards had to have been inserted in them just like the "10" packs. Is this box more common or tougher to come by? I'd be happy to send pics if you'd like.

Oh yeah...it's definitely not for sale...just wondering why the 20 packs aren't listed in the web site.

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

Would any of you "Old Judge" guys consider this to be a tough one?

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

The only 20 cigarette box I can think of that had cards is the Allen & Ginter World's Champions (N43).

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Posted By: 1880nonsports

the cards weren't in such a package. I didn't look too closely yet but if it wasn't a pack for export - no reason one might not have been inside. Different with "T" card issues and the slides than with the differently constructed early Goodwin boxes. The 20 count rang a bell but alas I don't remember why and have sold most of my non-Ginter card related packs including a few of these - maybe one was a "20". Certainly I know of at least 8 board members with this pack and maybe one will chime in. Jon has done some pretty good research on the subject of packs - and he has the ear of a couple old time tobacco peeps. Love that it has a relevant cancel (guess overstamp is the right vernacular?) in line with the distribution of the cards.

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Posted By: Joe_G.

Is that an Oct 1 1888 overstamp? A bit tough to read.

I have a 10 count pack with Oct 1 1888 overstamp that has "READ BASE BALL NOTICE INSIDE." on side of pack (same as pack in Old Judge book, page 59).

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: 1880nonsports

my book yet - but I'm interested about the "base ball notice" thing as I was unaware of such a reference on a package despite having owned a handfull. I thought only the YUM YUm tins had reference to cards held inside (help Jay) and later some of the packs that held silks and the like as in Tokio. This will be interesting as I imagine it was PRINTED on the pack - which would make it one of a kind I think. All other notices on any type of packaging were paper strips surrounding the outsides..... How would one define notice in 1888? I'm heading to the shelves to view the pack this second....

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Posted By: Joe_G.

The pack in the book is Jay's and is dated Aug 1 1888 while mine is dated Oct 1 1888. Both are 10 count packs and have a white seal that states "REFUSE THIS BOX IF EITHER SEAL IS BROKEN. with a second line that reads "READ BASE BALL NOTICE INSIDE." This is printed in red ink and I believe it makes reference to the cabinet card list that could be found inside (together with a redemption coupon and a single N172). I don't believe 1887 packs containing N172 cards had such notices.

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

In terms of why 20 count Old Judge boxes are not mentioned on the website, the main reason has to do with the fact that there has not been any proof that the 20 count boxes were associated with baseball card distribution. The 10 count packages that Joe alluded to above as well as Old Judge albums/advertisements show more concrete proof that Old Judge cards were packaged with the 10 count packages.

Is it possible 20 count packages were used for distribution - absolutely. But I'm not entirely sure that is the case.

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For the premier online souce of information on baseball-related cigarette packs, visit http://www.baseballandtobacco.com

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

Guess I was wrong on N43's. How were they distributed?

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Posted By: Mr. Moses

N43's weren't inserted into clamshell boxes?!?

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

I always thought that the N43's were distributed in Richmond Straight Cut boxes. (Clamshell)

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Posted By: NYHighlanderFan

The gentleman who my Dad and I obtained the box from had quite a few of these boxes...all with different city names written on the sides. And each of the boxes were full of Old Judge baseball cards that coordinated with that city. He was selling all of those cards separately...had dozens of them. Since I'm a Yankees fan, I remember picking the "New York" box. As seen in the one picture, someone many years ago wrote "New York" on the side. I wish I picked up more cards...$5 each was all he wanted for them!!!! But that was close to 25 years ago.

The overstamp is 1887.