Money for T206 Honus Wagner of Cobb/Edwards

[Archive]

Posted By: Adam

I thought I should make this a new thread, so as to not hijack another thread.



I will pay Mr. Cobb and Mr. Edwards $10,000 if they get the T206 Honus Wagner card they own, which is the subject of the video on the ESPN link below, graded as authentic by either PSA (www.psacard.com) or SGC (www.sgccard.com). To be clear, PSA or SGC must determine that exact card to be an authentic 1909-1911 Honus Wagner T206 card and must encapsulate it as such for the money to be paid. In addition to the $10,000, I will also reimburse Mr. Cobb and Mr. Edwards for the grading fees charged by PSA or SGC, if either grading company determines the card to be authentic.



http://videos.espn.com/m/video/20920180/outside_the_lines_card_games.htm?pageid=13901&seek =239.319>>



Mr. Cobb and Mr. Edwards can decide for themselves if they want to go with PSA or SGC. Entirely up to them, I can absolutely care less which company.



So come on Net54 people, anyone else willing to risk their own money so we can end the whole Cobb/Edwards issue with their T206 Honus Wagner once and for all???





Pledge now!


EDITED JANUARY 4, 2009 TO ADD: MY $10,000 OFFER HEREBY EXPIRES 30 DAYS FROM TODAY. COME AND GET IT BEFORE FEBRUARY 4, 2009 COBB/EDWARDS!!

[Archive]

Posted By: CoreyRSh.anus

Based on what I saw on the video, they will likely respond that the issue is not that they are concerned whether the card is authentic, but that they don't trust a grader to go "poking around" with the card. Should the card be damaged, they will argue, the loss in value will well exceed the $10,000 you are offering. Therefore, to really make this offer airtight, you might want to consider offering to indemnify them for any loss of value to the card should it be damaged during the grading process.

[Archive]

Posted By: Wesley

Why?

These guys have already received way more attention than they deserve.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob Ray

I somehow think these 2 lowlife hucksters will never find their way to this board again,after the (deserved) roasting they got the first time around. You'd have to find a way to contact them to make this offer.
That said, they'd be absolutely NUTS to not take you up on this offer.
I think,though,as much as they probably NEED the money, they KNOW it's a fake (c'mon,do they really expect anyone with a modicum of intelligence to believe that one of them paid $1,800 for this card back in the day?).
So,if they have any pride at all,knowing as they do that it's a fake they've tried to perpetrate for years, they would be faced with an "unauthentic" from any reputable grading company. And then they'd be outed.
To which they'd most likely asseert the race card.
I'm sure they'll never take anyone up on this offer,however genuine the offer may be.

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

this issue is so cut & dry. they are scared of having it looked at by a professional 3rd party grading company, because they do not want their "dream" to die. right now they think they "might" have a million dollar card. they know nothing about baseball cards...we all do. they've read all the posts, they've heard all of the facts (that the card is a reprint/fake)...they just simply are afraid of the truth, and having their dream shattered.



for the record: this has nothing to do with race, the above statements would apply if they were black, white, green or purple.

[Archive]

Posted By: packs

You know, I really don't understand the animosity towards these guys. They think they have a real card, so what? How does that make them low lifes? How does that make them bad people? Am I missing something? They haven't run a hussle on anyone as far as I can tell. They simply believe they have a genuine card. And to say that you know they need the money, is that an insult? Is there anyone who doesn't need $10,000 in these times? I simply don't understand what makes a person a low life or anything else simply because they believe they have an authentic card, regardless fo how you personally feel about it's authenticity.

I just wanted to add, I don't know if the comments in that video were lifted from Net 54, but if they were, I don't see any way of defending them as deserved if that is the roasting you are talking about.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

"...the above statement would apply if they were black, white, green or purple."

I'm sick of all of this political correctness. Everyone is so racially sensitive. Screw the purple people! Unless they're choking. Then help them.

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

Jodi- if you read between the lines in my comment...you'd understand that statement was put in there as a response to what Bob Connelly said regarding race...he's the one who started the race talk, which is nonesense...these guys (again regardless of race) have an obviously fake Wagner. period. Mr. Connelly, in very poor taste, made it a race issue.

this whole topic is a waste of my time and all of ours, honestly...

[Archive]

Posted By: Adam

Come on Michael, put some money on it and match my $10,000 then. I am just trying to create a good incentive here so this goes away once and for all!

[Archive]

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

MS--

Oh, I know. I was just happy you handed me an opportunity to insert a Mitch Hedberg one-liner, that's all!

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason L

are you serious?
why do you care?
I can't believe I am even taking the time to write this post!

I rather prefer thme to hang around, getting exposure for themselves, avoid grading, and continuing to entertain.

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

Jodi- Duh on my part...i scanned your post too fast and thought you were challenging me. my bad.

[Archive]

Posted By: JimB

packs,

They know the card is fake. They have been trying for several years to defraud somebody, but nobody has bitten yet. Does anybody here believe he went to an estate sale in the 1980s and spent $1800 on a baseball card he knew nothing about? He even says he had never heard of Honus Wagner at the time. Give me a break. They are liars and trying to rip someone off. There is no need for sympathy for these rip-off artists. They are con-men, pure and simple, trying to pretend they are innocent. All they have to do to make about a half a million dollars is submit the card to PSA or SGC and they sill refuse. They really are not worth all the attention they have gotten.

JimB



P.S. The racist comments in that previous thread and periodically in other threads on here is despicable. But that does not make these guys innocent.

[Archive]

Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Maybe I'll call ESPN and tell them I have wings on my back, but the bird-watching community keeps telling me they're just shoulder blades. My doctor tells me they were made at the same time as the rest of my body so they must be wings. Damn bird-watchers hate Italians.

Evidently ESPN likes its investigative journalists to stay outside their areas of expertise, so maybe they'll send Keith Olbermann out to do the story on my wings.

-Al

[Archive]

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

I think your wings would fare better if you got Linda off of keyboards. She's not really much of a musician.

[Archive]

Posted By: Adam

"are you serious?"

Yes.

"why do you care?"

Because I am tired of hearing about these two guys and their card. Lets end it once and for all. This is an incentive for just that to occur (i.e. for it to come to an end once and for all).

[Archive]

Posted By: James Todd

I honestly don't know the back story on these guys. This is the first I've ever heard of it. If they did try to manufacture the card themselves, then yeah they probably do deserve the low life title and some animosity from collectors. For all I know they could just be 2 guys who don't know anything about baseball cards and bought a hybrid reprint with a possibly real back that is leading them to believe the card must be real. I don't think anyone in their right mind would think that card is authentic. Maybe I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that I shouldn't. Sounds like there is more to the story.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim VB

Adam,

As much as your intentions are good, they won't work. People with this mindset are never dissuaded by pesky little things like "facts" when said facts disagree with their "beliefs."

These two will continue to avoid any reputable grading services and instead, seek out harmless allies like the "printing expert" who can't spell the names of the schools he attended, and "antiques dealers" who sell Beanie Babies.

What would they gain by taking you up on their offer? Their little life excitement would be over.

[Archive]

Posted By: MW

I posted this on the original thread back in 2006 but I think it bears repeating here:

I recall both of these individuals showing up in 1992 at a card show held at the Cincinnati Convention Center. The show was promoted by John O'Conner and the headline autograph guest was Billy Williams. The two guys sold us a fair condition 1965 Namath for $100 and also brought in some very low grade 1960s baseball cards and a stack of pretty ragged comics from the same time period.

Curiously, there was a dealer close to us who was selling a host of different reprinted cards including T206 Honus Wagners. One of the two guys purchased a reprinted T206 Wagner from this dealer and later brought it by and asked us what we thought it was worth. We told him nothing because it was a reprint. His response? "You just wait. This will really be worth something someday." He later returned with the card in a thick lucite screwdown. The implication was that they were going to attempt to sell it as an original.


Ray Edwards contributed the following rebuttal in Michael O'Keeffe's "The Card":

"That's bull****. I've never been to a card show. That is just more bull**** from those Network54 guys."

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

That does change the complexion (pun intended) of Cobb's "story" quite a bit. I am sure we don't know what we are talking about either...just as they feel they have a million dollar card. Thanks for posting.....

[Archive]

Posted By: Scott Levy

Now those are some juicy details !!

[Archive]

Posted By: Steven Finley

Adam as much as I would love to match your $10,000 offer, doing so on a bartenders salary just isn't possible. Especially since I blew my monthly card allotment on a hoard of 48 bowmans today. (Don't ask. I hadn't bought anything in a week and I was getting antsy.) However, for such a special occasion as such with these two rare birds, I will offer up my 1993 Topps Cecil Fielder Gold PSA 3 (Slight Paper Loss) to the cause. It is the singular PSA 3 in the registry making it quite the catch.

or..........Better Idea.....Much Much Better Idea

Take that ten grand and open up your own grading company. Adam's Global Sports Card Grading Company has a nice ring to it. Invite these two doe eyes down and grade it right in front of them. Slab it nice and tight with a tough but fair grade of AGSCGC 86.5 NM 7. Crack a bottle of champagne with them and set em up with a nice auction house. Then as soon as they walk out the door start slabbing as many Re-backed Wagner Repo's as you can. Make sure to mix it up good. Polar Bear Backs, Uzit's, Cobb backs, slab one and slab em all. Flood the market with so many Wag's that those two chumps couldn't trade it for a 91 Score Sid Bream if they tried. When the dust settles, hopefully the shame tweetledee and tweetledumb carry after watching their dreams crash like Lindsay Lohan leaving the club will cause them to toss their worthless repo in the Hudson. Finally then you can use all your AGSCGC profits and buyback all the Wagner's you slabbed, and burn them at the next Net 54 Dinner.

Now that is how you Rick Roll someone. Think about it, you can politely offer up a worthy challenge to an opponent that will never accept it....or.... you can buckle up, break some laws, and really burn these fools.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Delete

[Archive]

Posted By: Miguel Danielson

Isn't it curious that these two fellows won't trust SGC or PSA -- people who handle cards worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars every single day, without any allegation or complaint of tampering -- with their card, not even for the hour or so they could wait in the lobby to have it examined...BUT, they will hand the thing over in perpetuity to some small time ANTIQUES dealer in the middle of nowhere?

Of course this thing is an obvious fake -- nobody without a financial stake in the card doubts this. The only question is whether these guys are knowing frauds, or whether they are simply legitimately stupid enough to believe that they're so special that they have the only known authentic T206 wagner with the re-print typeface and other re-print indicators. My belief, based on the above, is that the former is the case. I think everyone here understands this, and I think that is why there is such animosity here.

Relatedly, but off topic, I recently watched a really fascinating documentary about a woman who purchased a painting at a thrift store for a few bucks and believes it is an authentic Jackson Pollack. In that case, there is actually much better evidence that she is right, and she's even been offered real money (but not Jackson Pollock money) for the painting on several occasions. It's a good watch if you're into the treasure hunting stories. It occurs to me that the two Honus Wanger fake owners are trying to come off like the lady in this movie, but they are very, very different indeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_the_****_Is_Jackson_Pollock%3F

[Archive]

Posted By: Red

I wonder if the thing they're trying to sell is insured. If you know absolutely nothing about baseball cards and are somewhat gullible, you might find the story interesting and compelling. For all you know the card could be worth a lot of money. Publicity for something where there looks to be a lot of money involved could attract interest from unsavory people. Theres no way you can trust a traditional bank safe deposit box for something of that value. Id find someplace nobody would ever think to look.

[Archive]

Posted By: jason

i can't say that the card is real or fake but if these two guys where mastro or some one of that pull in the hobby they would be able to sit and watch psa grade the wagner.

[Archive]

Posted By: Cat

I don't know Jason, Leon's got a lot of pull and he can't even get Joe O to return his calls let alone see a card get graded.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I sent a polite email to Joe today and he returned it. I am making headway....

[Archive]

Posted By: Cat

Leon:

That is good news!!! Personally, I just have the goal of getting PSA to treat me like a decent ordinary customer. I think it will take a lot more time for me to get there.

[Archive]

Posted By: jason

the card never had a chance for it to be graded. it was called a fake the second it surfaced i don't think that the guys are trying to cheat anybody. i would not let that card out of my sight if it was mine i agree with them i know that psa is a trusted company but it could be traded for a fake or be damaged even more than it is.

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

If they guarantee the card to be real. What would happen if someone did buy the card for 850,000.00 and then had it graded as unauthentic. Couldnt the new owner then sue for his money? I think 10,000 could pay for your lawsuit and that would also end it.

[Archive]

Posted By: David Smith

I don't have a lot of money right now but I will throw in $10 dollars on one condition; that after the card has been deemed a fake, that the two, uh hum, "gentlemen" who own the card have to split it in half and eat it. Hopefully on a national TV show.

David

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Surely you jest?

edited to add....that card is a very, very poor fake. It is worth 0 and any damage caused to it makes it worth the same amount, 0. My own personal opinion is that those 2 guys are idiots....

[Archive]

Posted By: Alan

You guys should come to the PSA luncheon at the National. Just tell them you're big fans of Joe O.

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

Funny thing is its not even one of the better reprints. Its so obvious.

A 4 year old can tell its not the same...

Its a waste of time writting this... again. but Maybe Cobb/Edwards can read this and wake up from the dream...

The font is all wrong. Color of ink (black not brownish like the authentic cards), and the P and G in "Pittsburg" in caption are not slightly larger than the letters between them like ALL authentic T206 card. The "G" on the uniform is too close to the border (this is because this reprint from the 1980s was cropped when it was designed, like most reprints). Photo was cropped and a new white border was made (and a new caption was designed) so they wouldnt have print dots in the white border when the card was rescreened in design.

I dont blame Cobb/Edwards much, they are dreamers, but.... The old fart needs glasses.

PS a good reprint will reproduce the exact card, ie. a photo of the card. This is not the case here...very easy to see.