East Coast National

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Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

Very disappointing show. We went last evening for an hour.

Unless you wish to see a preview of the cards from forth coming
Memory Lane or Huggins Auction- want to purchase a few
over-priced,albeit high grade1950's cards- the material on display
was very weak, at best.

A few dealers had a few ungraded tobacco cards- but the condition
was beater at best.

All major grading services were there...albeit SGC was not grading on site.

Not worth the trip if you are looking to buy any meaningful cards.


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: Jason L

This show never has much in the way of vintage, and perhaps the summer vacation season has taken a toll on this particular event this weekend.

The only reasons I go to this show are:
1) submit cards to SGC (and maybe PSA, we'll see)
2) bring my boys and search for their passion: Starting Lineup and MacFarlane figures,
and
3) try to recall the good old days of just going to a show.

My oldest son made me raise an eyebrow last night, though, when I asked him if he wanted to go...he said, "I want to maybe get some really old baseball cards."
I replied, cautious and nervous, "What you mean, like 1980s?" hoping to keep the family finances intact.
To this he responded, "No like really really old. Like when baseball first started!"

The last thing I need is to spend time trying to figure out how to explain to my wife that the card budget must be tripled because I can't find a way to stop my 6 year old son from buying 19th Century baseball cards!

So Bruce's news may actually be good for me.
We'll see how it goes on Sunday!

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Posted By: T206Collector

I found a wide array of T206 cards last night -- many more than are typically at the White Plains show. I was quite happy to add this toughie -- with an orange background and an Old Mill wet sheet transfer -- to my T206 Reacquisition Campaign (and at a very reasonable price, I might add):



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Posted By: Jimmy

My partner and I have been asked many times to setup at this show, four days is too long. They should try and cut it down to Friday Night/Sat/Sun or maybe just even two days. The promoters are great guys and they do a nice job with their shows, just hard to get that much time off and costs of traveling.

Jimmy

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

While I too think highly of the show's promoters, any show held at this venue ranks as my least favorite in the hobby/industry. It's akin to drowning in a sea of shiny cards and Sharpie-signed pieces (or living amongst the bobbin'-headed residents of Chachkatown). I have worked that show perhaps 20 times and have never came home with anything outside of a headache.

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Posted By: peter ullman

Nice T's Paul.

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Posted By: T206Collector

....probably add that it only takes me 10 minutes to drive there, so I am pretty much always happy to see the show come to town, even if there are usually only 3 or 4 dealers set up with prewar material.

This time I was surprised by the additional of perhaps another 5 or 6 tables of prewar stuff. It's not a lot by higher standards, but from my perspective it is fine....



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Posted By: bigfish

I was at the show on Friday. Not alot of high end vintage cards but there are nice deals to be had. It is always nice to submitt cards in person to SGC. Knowing the cards are safe and getting a quick turnaround is nice. I go to this show mainly for this reason. Mike Goldberg and Brian Dwyer were nice to talk to and very helpful as usual. I would not go to the show with high expectations but I think you would find a surprise or two there.

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Posted By: Phil Garry

I attended the show today and submitted a couple of interesting cards to SGC. Brian always enjoys seeing my unusual pieces and they were also able to take care of a re-holder for me. Mike also informed me that my grading order is ready for pick-up at the office, once again ahead of schedule.

I also highly recommend Beckett Grading Services for any oversize items that have been too large for the other grading companies in the past. Andy, the vintage grader over there, is a pleasure to deal with and there are a lot of possibilities with their 8 1/2" X 11" holders.

Unfortunately, I had to leave the show quickly to put in a few hours at the office today so I really cannot comment on the availability of vintage cards at dealer tables.

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Posted By: Jason L

Well, I have to say I was very happy with my trip to the show today. I usually go in with low expectations that only include dropping off grading submissions, so there was upside available.

I agree that there seemed to be a few extra tables of vintage material there. I didn't buy anything, but was certainly tempted plenty.

Met Michael and Brian at the SGC table again. Excellent, friendly service as usual, and I survived Michael's free handout of their latest magazine issue with my wife being present.
Stay tuned for a few of my favorite sunsets in SGC holders.

Enjoyed helping my boys shop for some Starting Lineup figures and a couple grab bags.

best time I've had at a show in awhile.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...and picked up four raw T206 cards: Lindaman, Dougherty Portrait, Leach Portrait and Mattern -- all from the same original collection that had been purchased by an old time dealer back in 1982. This show was the first time that he had brought the cards to the table to sell, and he had them hidden in a notebook under his table. The only reason he showed it to me was because I expressed an interest in his meager T206 stack that was visible.

I have to say, those raw cards were so beautiful -- snow white borders, sharp corners with just a few touches. Unless I'm missing something, each should be an SGC 60 or higher. I dropped them off immediately at SGC and will get back to y'all in a couple of weeks to see what's what.

Happy I came back...

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Posted By: Brian

I saw those T206 beauties mentioned in the last post as well--they were all in a binder, many looked to be Ex, and I was tempted to buy a bunch myself. Glad I picked up the dealer's card; I may buy one or more after all.
This was probably the best show in some time; more interesting vintage material and some pretty good deals were possible. Got a few nice boxing cards and a 4-in-1 Greenberg.

As always, dropped some cards off with SGC. The folks there told me someone brought in a T206 Plank and Magee--an old-time collector with all cards except the Wagner. And when I was sitting there, another guy brought in a '52 Mantle. Interesting show.
Brian

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Posted By: Jason L

how was his pricing on those raw T206s?

I have to say that I was a little surprised at how much of the vintage material on display there was not slabbed. Some really amazing items, too...which actually made me shy away from them. I mean, why would you have a very handsome, raw T206 Speaker for sale for $1500? I know what my answer is, and I would think I am not alone....I know traditionalists would be upset, but now that 3rd party grading is here, you have to realize that buyers are asking themselves while they consider buying...

Edited to add:
Interesting side note: I saw some T3's for the first time in person, and I have to say that I was surprised. I did not find them appealing very much at all! Happily, this means I can confidently remove them from my wantlist!!!

On the flip side, I was drawn towards some of the non-sports items I saw, -the presidential stuff. The art was stunning. And then, I saw some incredible CJs, so that could be a problem.

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

there is one guy who always has a table at these white plains shows. his name is chuck blue. he has a ton of great cards but has them way way over priced. its a shame too because he is one of the two or three guys their with fantastic vintage pre-war collections. i'd love to throw him some business but his prices are outlandish.

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Posted By: Jason L

of the front door?
huge layout of envious material, no prices marked, if I recall correctly.

Yes, every time I have gone by, he is usually sitting there reading.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Jason,

Yes, I believe that's the fellow. He seems nice enough to talk with, but I've never exchanged more than a friendly "How do?" with him as we're on different ends of the hobby. I noticed the same thing about the lack of marked prices.

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Posted By: Matt

Chuck is a real nice guy to speak with - and I agree his prices are higher then one would expect. I spoke with him about his Joe Jackson before I acquired mine.

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Posted By: Jason L

I'm sure he's perfectly friendly. I didn't stay in one spot too long, since it's a challenging chore to keep my young sons' hands off the table displays once we stop and look at something!

The lack of marked prices is hard to interpret.
I probably shouldn't, but I usually assume that means the person isn't as open for business as one who has marked prices on his cards.

do others agree, or is this my own personal neurosis that I need to overcome?

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

I would tend to agree. Another reason this is done might be to avoid all the "Why is that so much? I've never even heard of a player named Lowdermilk! Do you have any Plaxico Burress?" type of unschooled questioning which can really become tiresome to a knowledgeable dealer.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Chuck is not the guy who sits right near the front door at the "Rosen Table". Chuck was set up about middle isle, half way back between the front and stage (pretty much the exact middle spot of the floor). Chuck has incredible stuff and a lot of his best items are not even out. He usually brings a "keep" box with some of his personal cards and when you strike up a conversation, the "keep box" comes out and your jaw drops.

That all being said, I've bought from Chuck plenty times in the past and have known him for 4 or 5 years now. He usually deals nicely on his cards so I wouldn't get sticker shock. Rather, just ask what the best he can do is. I bought a few E95s from Chuck 2 years back and he gave me the best prices I could find.

======================================
For the premier souce of information on baseball-related cigarette packs on the web, visit http://www.baseballandtobacco.com

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Posted By: Phil Garry

I agree with Jon, Chuck has a lot of quality vintage material, is very easy to deal with and will negotiate fairly on his cards.

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

chuck is a really nice guy and whenever i go to the show i always stop at his table to check out his wares. i usually spend about a half hour just talking about his cards and showing him a few of mine i'm trying to peddle. he is always trying to acquire my cobb bat off with a soveriegn back but never really has anything i'd be looking to trade it for. of course he has stuff i'd kill to get, but his prices are too high most of the time. i'm sure he lives by the philosophy of "someone will buy this at this price" but it just isn't me. he is a really nice guy though and i always enjoy talking to him at these shows.

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Posted By: Jason L

I will have to look for him next time.

Does he have a website, Ebay handle, or read this Board, as far as you know?

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

not that i know of. he gave me his card because i dropped off a card at sgc that he may be interested in once i get it back. he is based out of connecticut. his day job is dealing in gems and precious metals and his business is called blue gems or something to that effect. you may be able to find him through his business website if it has one. he has a ton of great cards and is a really nice guy. loves to talk cards.

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Posted By: David Skoglund

The last thing I need is to spend time trying to figure out how to explain to my wife that the card budget must be tripled because I can't find a way to stop my 6 year old son from buying 19th Century baseball cards!"

------

Jason,

Well, unless he's already got a good job I'd say stopping him is pretty easy.

Seriously though, how about picking up a copy the Dover Classic Baseball Cards book? I had that when I was a kid and loved it. Or even two copies, one to detach the cards another to leaf through.

Or how about a T206 reprint set? I would have loved to have something like that when I was a kid.

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Posted By: D. Bergin

HaHa! Memories. I remember Chuck from years ago doing the Connecticut show circuit. I always had oddball stuff and Chuck liked oddball stuff so we would do a lot of trades.

The general rule when you dealt with Chuck was, he usually priced everything double what he was actually willing to sell it for. I think he got this from his years of dealing with jewelry. Make the customer think they're getting a great deal by slashing your original price by a large percentage.

Chuck was always a talker so it didn't take him long to get to his..........."I can give you a great deal on this........" line. LOL!!

He was definitely a character from when I knew him. He was a hustler and wheeler dealer who would set up absolutely anywhere with his jewelry or his cards. I remember hearing stories of Chuck setting up shop in Old Folks homes during the week or at country fairs.

He was always a salesman, that's for sure.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

I have his email address kicking around somewhere if you need it but as far as I know, he has no website.

======================================
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Posted By: Danny Grimes

i was at chuck's table when he had your t3 chase, said he was trying to work a deal with you. i agree he has nice stuff but off the face of the earth with his prices. he had alot of F&B in his cases.

one of the last things i bought from him was a cycle 350 chase. i couldnt seem to find one anywhere and paid a little more for it but i was happy. the 350 gave me a harder time than the 460 believe it or not.

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Posted By: Larry

Without great vendors like Chuck Blue, Ron Vitro and Roger Burns and Huggins Auctions, displaying pre war at this show, there would be little vintage offered so collectors should be grateful they are there. Even if you think the prices are high, their inventories cost money, tables cost money and travel costs also, they cannot sell this quality for "book" and make a profit, there is so little vintage available, unlike post 1950's BOOK PRICES and SMR are just so low for this type of material. They are the main reason we even visit this show.

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

hey larry i agree with some of what you said but it doesn't seem to me that these guys are just getting into the hobby. i'm sure for the majority of these vintage powerhouse guys they have had their inventory for quite some time and most likely built their collections in a time when cards weren't the investments they are today.even with the costs of the tables, these guys usually show up to every show with repeat merchandise. perhaps they would sell if they sought more reasonable prices. then they could easily off set their expenses since it doesn't seem like much is selling for what they're looking for.

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Posted By: peter ullman

I bet some of these older collectors/dealers who built the meat of their collections back in the day, show up because they really enjoy it...and if they can break even, even better. We all have to pay for entertainment don't we? Why even have a "book" if it belongs in the fiction section?

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

hey these days people just aren't willing to spend the money they were in the past. i'm really surprised card prices continue to rise in such meager times. there is the old addage "it's only worth what someone will pay". sooner or later you'd think it would reflect in card prices but for one reason or another the economy seems to be boosting the price of cards rather than the assumed effect.

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Posted By: CN

I agree with Larry 100%. I am thankful for these dealers that make the show worth going to. Everybody moans that there are no vintage dealers set up at card shows and then when they do set up their prices are too high. I am thankful they are there.CN

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Posted By: Danny Grimes

t206 collector was that the old man on top ofthe stage? if so i saw the notebook at the last show he did in CT. i agree the were really, really sharp and attractive.

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Posted By: Larry

Hi-

Look, sometimes I even break their b---s about pricing but realistically, they do stand out otherwise shows would be boring., and those guys especially are very nice people...plus , they do not have a majority of their merchandise from the old days, I have seen a couple of these guys actually buy material from e bay and then resell at show, I know, I bid on same items and lost! Their margins cannot be too large that way.

Still, hopefully we can all see those E126's, T211's, E92's, N172's etc. in person instead of shiny stuff, even if the prices are seemingly "high".

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Posted By: T206Collector

Yes....the cards were in a binder at a table on the stage. It was a really terrific album. The cards may technically be only EX because of the light touches on the corners, but they were brilliant, with original gloss and snow white borders. The prices were very reasonable, but not crazy -- you make money if they grade over SGC 60; you lose money if they grade under. I don't usually buy raw -- almost never -- but these were just gorgeous; some of the nicest raw cards I've ever held.



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Posted By: T206Collector

I'll post them in the Pick Up thread when I get them back from SGC, but wanted to follow up in this thread that the four cards graded as follows:

Dougherty Portrait - SGC 80
Leach Portrait - SGC 70
Lindaman - SGC 60
Mattern - SGC 60

I have never submitted a raw T206 card to SGC and gotten an 80 before, so this is pretty cool for me.


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Posted By: Jason L

what turnaround time/service did you get from SGC?!?!?

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Posted By: T206Collector

Which is about two weeks. The cards were mailed yesterday and will arrive on Tuesday.

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Posted By: Jason L

I dropped an order off with them as well, but I had a couple cards in there that require custom holders, etc...should see them next week, I think.

A couple of stunning sunsets, my final T205 Cubs card, more of the Handley hoard, among other things,...nothing real valuable