OT: Michael Phelps

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Posted By: James Feagin

As an American, Marylander and Baltimoron I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling fortunate to watch a part of sports history over the past week. The way Phelps has handled himself is absolutely impressive. Driving through Baltimore last night, the place was absolutely nuts! Congratulations Michael Phelps on your 8 gold medals!

James

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Posted By: CN

I kind of feel sorry for the guy. He will probably go down as the greatest Olympian ever and I just read that he will train for London in 2012 but what kind of life does he have? He swims for 5 hours every day then eats and sleeps. I read somewhere that he rarely socializes out and does not have a girlfriend. Mark Spitz said that in 1972 he put half the time in that Phelps does and was able to half a normal life. That said it has been an exciting week and I am sure Dick Ebersol at NBC is thrilled as is the rest of the country. In New York Phelps actually managed to get some top billing in spite of the Yanks,Mets,Giants and Favre. Very impressive CN.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Yes indeed....Baltimore has been the "Home of Champions" since the 19th Century.

TED Z

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Posted By: barrysloate

How does Michael Phelps earn a living as a professional swimmer? I know he will get numerous endorsements, but there are no professional swimming leagues. I don't see him selling insurance or driving a cab when he is done in the pool.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

He got a 1 million dollar bonus for equaling Spitz the other day from his top sponsor....add that on to what hes received before and what he will make in the future and im sure he doesnt have to worry about money now or any time soon,especially if he just trains eats and sleeps all the time

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Posted By: Eric B

Rick Harrow (sp?), the Moneyball guy from Fox Sports syas he will make areound $40 million in endorsements. Plus 5 hours a day "swimming" is a lot less than 8 hours a day "working".

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Posted By: paulstratton

I'm an unabashed flag waver so congrats to Phelps, but I'm not so sure about the greatest Olympian ever talk. Swimming hands out a lot of medals so he has more chances than a lot of other athletes to pile up wins. Still a great accomplishment.

His auto card went from $25 to the $500-1000 range in no time. Wish I would have bought a stack of those puppies.



Baltimore has been the "Home of Champions" since the 19th Century? That's news to me.

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Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

When one is determined to be the best at anything it requires 100% total dedication.

Who cares about a trivial thing like a girl friend when one can be the best ever?

Look at anyone in history who was the best ever, and you will find that their
dedication to their goal was everything

1. Bill Gates
2. Tiger Woods
3. Ty Cobb
4. Jeffrson Burdick

To break records, achieve the impossible, earn billions requires that one forget
social relationships and view the task as life's only mission.

Many years ago, we were playing golf with Tom Seaver. He told us a story about
leaving the Reds Stadium at 9:30 PM after pitching the second game of a double header.
He heard noise on the field and called security. It was Pete Rose taking batting practice.
Seaver asked him why he was taking batting practice at 9:30 PM on a hot humid day after
going 4 for 7 in the doubleheader... Rose replied because they got me out 3 times.

Bless Michael Phelps- his 100% dedication to greatness is the key to the ultimate success

The whole problem with America is that everyone is too worried about life in balance
If you can't come in on Saturday, don't bother showing up on Sunday. Look at the mega law
firms, Goldman Sachs and the top 5 Hedge funds- they work around the clock and always
focus on the target.

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: Matt

"Many years ago, we were playing golf with Tom Seaver."

was anyone else in your four-some?

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Posted By: Andrew

That's an interesting story about Seaver.

"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

Dear Matt:

Tom Seaver worked for dad's company (Telecom) as a spokesperson
The ad campaign was "Hear Tom Pitch"

Also in the group were dad and the club pro at the time time
Larry Laoretti Larry was famous because he was a cigar smoker
who won the US Senior Open back in the mid 1980's.

Larry was the pro who taught us how to play golf


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: SC

I've often thought that those that strive to be the best at anything, need to make sacrifices in most other areas of their lives. Talent can only carry you so far. Inevitably, you see the stories of the great ones - Tiger, Jordan, Jerry Rice, etc. training over and over, far beyond what "normal" athletes do.

I'm sure Phelps could have a normal life, winning 3 golds and 2 bronze and going down as one of the top swimmers of his generation. But the difference between great and greatest was shown to be .01 of a second in the 100m Butterfly. How many athletes would spend all those lonely hours in the pool, to shave that extra fraction off their time...or would Silver be "good enough."

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Posted By: peter ullman

Phelps has captivated the attention of the world, myself included, and has earned it. As a former Baltimoron...I too am very proud of his accomplishments and feel honoured to have witnessed his amazing feats with my friends and family this year. And I agree with Bruce...that great sacrifices need be made...to accomplish great things. He'll have plenty of time for women and drinking in his 30's and so on!

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Posted By: Jim Thierfelder

There is no such thing as a normal life by someone else's standards. I am guessing that his training and preparation are pretty normal to him.

The greatest olympian ever? Maybe, but I think we can agree that he is among the greatest ever.

What I do know for sure is that I have been riveted watching his journey through the games and that at this time and place he is dominating his sport like few others have dominated any sport.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Tom Seaver and Bill Gates, among others, have a wife and family. So it is possible to be very dedicated towards a goal and still have some sense of normalcy.

And if Phelps is projected to earn $40 million in endorsements, then that is his career- selling other people's products (and swimming in between).

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Posted By: Anonymous

He has a lovely wife (and now a daughter) who he began dating in 2001, and before that had a serious girlfriend.

Jack Nicklaus, no slouch himself when it came to dedication to golf, was married (and had kids) very young.

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Posted By: jdrum

He's certainly the greatest swimmer extant!

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Posted By: Anonymous

In my opinion, Carl Lewis.

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Posted By: paulstratton

L.Laoretti won the US Senior Open in 1992, not the mid-80's. Woods has had an amazingly normal life for someone of his stature, his mom and dad made sure of it. He went to college, ran track in high school, had girlfriends, etc.. Some people need total focus with no distractions to achieve great things, others perform better when they have balance in their life.

Phelps is great(perhaps the greatest), but the fact that he doesn't even compete in his sports signature events(50, 100 meter freestyle) is a gaping hole on his resume IMO.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

"Goldman Sachs and the top 5 Hedge funds- they work around the clock and always
focus on the target."

Now there is something to emulate.

Our economy is in the crapper because this country no longer produces anything tangible.

Steel? Nope. Electronics? Hardly. Automobiles? Don't make me laugh.

The only thing we "manufacture" are "financial products."

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Posted By: James Feagin

"but the fact that he doesn't even compete in his sports signature events(50, 100 meter freestyle) is a gaping hole on his resume IMO."

I'm not a swimming expert at all, but this doesn't strike me as a fair statement. Just like there are different styles of runners, I'm sure there are different types of swimmers. Usain Bolt (who won the sprint in track and field yesterday) probably isn't suited to a marathon just as an endurance swimmer like Phelps probably isn't suited to a swimming sprint like the 50M.

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Posted By: barrysloate

David- I like to think of hedge fund managers as glorified paper pushers. As you said, they earn hundreds of millions of dollars without producing anything.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Due to scheduling, not only of the Olympics themselves but the Olympic trials, including of course qualifying heats and semifinals as well as the final, there is a logistical limit to how many events one man can swim. Perhaps that explains why Phelps doesn't swim the 100m freestyle.

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Posted By: jay wolt

Phelps is impressive and I'm happy I got to witness history.
He seems like a great kid and down to earth.

But if I had to choose the greatest Olympian it would be
Jesse Owens. What he did in 1936 in Germany under that
climate is incredible as it went beyond the track & field.

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Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

in the bank large amounts


To call hedge fund paper pushers would be like calling Ty Cobb
a little leaguer


The guys who take the risks deserve to earn the rewards

Those socialists who sit back and complain are just watching
the world go by]

America is about competition. Competitive advantage and
winning. Blaming Goldman Sachs for America's problems
would be as silly as when the Yankees blamed the National
League for not having a designated hitter and causing for Wang's injury.


One of the major reasons so many cards have achieved record
prices was the interest that a dozen or Wall Street multi-millioniares
took in baseball cards. Don't forget it.

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: barrysloate

I was being a little tongue in cheek.

I recognize the skills and risks taken by these money managers, but the fact is they produce nothing but deals. That is not the way to build a nation; it just builds one's personal portfolio.

And do you really think I'm a socialist? Just curious.

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Posted By: Eric

Bruces...do you guy(s) care about anything other than money?

Just curious.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

DITTO....to your post on Jessie Owens in 1936.

And, I will add Mack Robinson (Jackie's older brother) to this....as he came in 2nd to Jessie....
and, won the Silver Medal in 1936.

TED Z

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Posted By: Anonymous

Jesse Owens' feat was special no doubt about it. But Carl Lewis won golds in FOUR Olympics, including four consecutive long jump gold medals. Track and field is the core sport of the Olympics, and Carl Lewis is the greatest track and field athlete ever. EDIT TO ADD And if it weren't for the 1980 boycott Lewis probably would have won golds in five, as he had qualified for the team at the age of 19.

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Posted By: paulstratton

"Due to scheduling, not only of the Olympics themselves but the Olympic trials, including of course qualifying heats and semifinals as well as the final, there is a logistical limit to how many events one man can swim. Perhaps that explains why Phelps doesn't swim the 100m freestyle."

Sure there are scheduling conflicts, but he made his schedule around events he knew/thought the could win. He knew he couldn't win the 50 or 100 free so he didn't include them in his rotation. Who knows, maybe if he only swam the 100 and 50 free he could win them, but then we probably wouldn't be talking about him right now, so he probably made the right choice.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I have never seen a man so relentlessly negative.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Perhaps Carl Lewis does get the nod as the greatest Olympian ever, but I wouldn't make light of Phelps' accomplishments. It is very difficult to win eight out of eight events, including seven world records. And the one event he didn't set a record may be the most compelling of all, as he snatched victory from second place with a one-hundredth of a second margin.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

"I'm the fastest man in the world Joe Piscopo!"

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Posted By: jdrum

My guess is that Michael Phelps is quite comfortable with his place in the Olympic pantheon.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

It is hard to realistically challenge the notion that Phelps is the greatest Olympian ever considering his 14 golds over two Olympic games. In terms of difficulty of feats, I'd say Eric Heiden is up there with his 5 golds at very different skating lengths in 1980.

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Posted By: Matt

This is one of those debates like an MVP debate where the discussion is really about what the criterion is for the title as opposed to who best meets that criterion.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

"One of the major reasons so many cards have achieved record prices was the interest that a dozen or Wall Street multi-millioniares took in baseball cards. Don't forget it."

Is this a great country, or what?

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Posted By: paulstratton

I disagree with your assessment Peter. I think I said Phelps was great at least a few times. My argument was more in the context of greatest Olympian ever, I think it's clear he is one of the two best swimmers in Olympic history. If Carl Lewis had never won the 100 meters, but won other distance events, would you still consider him the greatest Olympian?

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Posted By: David Atkatz

"The guys who take the risks deserve to earn the rewards"

The risks? Do you mean risking billions in other people's money? Omigod, what a risk.

Not like the guys who climb and build cell phone towers, so you're never cut off from your next big deal. Or the fisherman who make sure you have your required Omega-3 fatty acids. Or the workers at slaughterhouses, and Tyson chicken plants, who keep leaving parts of their own anatomies in the ground chuck.

Nope. Those hedge fund managers are the real risk takers, yesiree.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Paul not sure. If it were shot put and discus I wouldn't have the same assessment, but if it were the long jump and the 200 I might.

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Posted By: Bob

I heard a report on ESPN yesterday that Phelps will command more money in advertising, etc. revenue than any previous athlete. I would question if he will ever command Tiger Woods money but he is going to be a very wealthy man.
If I had to pick a greatest Olympian of all time, I would always pick a team, the 1980 USA hockey team. It's probably hard for anyone to realize or appreciate how their performance went beyond Sports and touched people personally who didn't witness it. You guys under 40 probably can't really relate

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

"I think it's clear he is one of the two best swimmers in Olympic history."

Paul, what are you smoking? Did you at least watch last night's race? He was in third place when he hit the water...and in a very short distance (100 m) he finished way in front. He is totally dominant.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I doubt anyone else would agree, and I think you need a running background to truly appreciate it, but to me Lasse Viren's fifth place finish in a very competitive 1976 marathon field, in his first marathon run ever, after WINNING the 5,000 and 10,000, is one of the most remarkable things I ever saw.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I would give the nod to Phelps but it is not a no brainer.

Spitz could have won 8 golds if they had a 50.

Spitz's margins of victory were, I believe, generally larger. No photo finishes.

Spitz won the glamour event, the 100 free.

On the other side of the ledger, the relays are more competitive now and the pressure on Phelps was far greater. And Phelps had a much stronger debut than Spitz, who was a relative disappointment in Mexico City. And, what tips the balance for me is that Phelps won gold in an individual medley. Not quite the same of course as the impossible feat of someone winning an individual track or field event and the decathlon, but still...

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Posted By: paulstratton

I'm not smoking anything. I watched all of his races in awe like everyone else. It's really hard to compare era's though. Was Bonds better than Ruth? Is Tiger better than Nicklaus? If Spitz hadn't had a dream to win 7 in one Olympics then I doubt Phelps would be standing here today with 8. Do you really believe Nicklaus would only have 18 majors if the record was 22? You can't just forget about the original record setters, sorry.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Peter, good point about the marathoner who had won the 5K and 10K; it's akin to a great home run hitter suddenly pitching a shutout in the next game: two totally different skill sets (and the agony he must have been in to have to run the marathon after those shorter races).

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Posted By: Anonymous

Jeff, he also had to run qualifying heats for the 5 and 10K. To win both those events is a remarkable accomplishment. To then go out, having never run a marathon, and to finish fifth in a highly competitive field including Frank Shorter is mind boggling. I don't know what to compare it with.

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

I was a swimmer and even swam on the same team with Dara Torres when she was 11 and a little brat.

You can not compare what Spitz and Phelps have done. When Spitz swam USA came in 1-2-3 in virtually every event. The world as a whole did not really care about swimming.

Now swimming is huge world wide and the competition is much fiercer then in 1972.

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Posted By: paulstratton

According to that logic you can't compare any past athletes to today's athletes unless the entire world was competing in their particular sport from that sports inception? I think the all-time greats would have dominated their sport without regard to the era in which they competed.

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Posted By: Dennis Mosley

I have not heard mention of Jim Thorpe, most likely the greatest Natural athlete of all time, we're talking raw talent here not polished up like today's athletes. No disrespect meant to Phelps or other great Olympians.