Mullaney w Young ghost, multiple overstrike reverse authenticated by PSA ends tonight

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Posted By: T E

This is, obviously, an update to what follows...Good luck to all!
Auction ends tonight 9:20 pm EDT, ebay item # 120277495275

So I finally did it, had this wild thing authenticated. Went with PSA because I've used them before, experience for me in this case was all good. I paid for 2 day service, they kept it several days extra, which was understandable in this case, Ivan (last name escapes me right now) called me from PSA and explained that they were bringing in consultants to examine authenticity and proper labeling, and told me they were going to send me a credit for the delay which I thought was very nice (Hey Ivan, send that credit on!) and now here it is.

One thing that was not apparent in previous images and I never thought of is that Young ghost is upside down. My guess is that they printed the Mullaney side, completed it, then flipped it to do the branding. But they kept it on the wrong press, and presto, Young ghost. Spotting their error, they used the back to clean the plates. At some point, the entire panel was flipped over again, and looking perfectly fine, was cut and stuffed into packs. Anyway, just my theory.



As I wrote on another thread regarding this card,

In about 1973 or 1972, that time frame, I walked into a nostalgia shop (must have been one of the first of its kind) on Ascan Avenue in Forest Hills, Queens called Little Nemo's. The owner had a shoebox with about 180 T206s in it. He sold them to me for the lofty sum of $15. This card was one of them.

Fast forward about 8 years, now I am living alone in Manhattan. My apartment was burglarized. I had my t206s in a case, in three stacks. The crooks took two of the stacks, left the third. This card was in the stack they left.

I often gazed at this card wondering who that ghost image was. I had heard that error cards were worthless, so I didn't pursue it. I am not a t206 collector, and I started selling off my cards on ebay a couple of years ago under my ID of easthamptonauctions (my ID was hoofaway back then)

Then about two years ago Leland's auctioned off a card with a Piedmont double overstrike. It went for maybe $1500, that neighborhood. I thought, well, damn, I got something that sure beats that! I was directed to this board from the ebay Sports Mem. board. I posted an image of it and quite a wonderful thread grew out of it.

What now? Beats me. This pretty much is my t206 collection.

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Posted By: barrysloate

That's a very busy card. Love it!

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Posted By: Joseph Shirley

That is one of the coolest T206 overprint errors I have seen. Let us know if/when you send it to auction. I do not collect error cards at this time, but would love to follow this one. I suspect some big bucks for it. Makes you wonder what happenned to the rest of the sheet?

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Posted By: T E

My guess is rest of the sheet was scattered across northeast. The original collection was mostly sweet cap and piedmont backs. One thing to note is the miscut on the card's left border.

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

That card has to be one of the most fascinating T206s I have seen.  I simply love it. 

martyOgelvie
nyyankeecards.com

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Posted By: Adam

Amazing card, congrats on getting it encapsulated!

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Posted By: Anthony S.

Well, it is a Southern Leaguer, but it does have a crease, and I see it only got an authentic grade. I'll give you $45 for it.

No matter how many times I see that card, it never ceases to amaze. wow.

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Posted By: Craig W

Very kewl to have a near complete back collection with one card!

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Posted By: Steve

Certainly a 1/1. They should have slabbed it with Cy facing front.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

I love seeing those errors. Thanks for sharing it!

My error card web site, in case you are interested: http://imageevent.com/exhibitman/freaksandgeeks

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: AndyH

This is fascinating. I just finished a post on my blog about an hour ago talking about the T206 Chance printer's scrap that closed on eBay a couple days ago and I pictured this exact card in my post. I showed a couple of amazing backs and remembered yours. Then I searched the archives and found the original thread and borrowed the image to include in my blog. Now, here you are, posting a follow up thread about the card. Simply awesome. I love this card.

What are the odds of this?

Thanks,

Andy

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Posted By: dan mckee

Great card! it is a crying shame that it is encapsulated!

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Posted By: Brian

2nd verse, same as the 1st

Great card

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Posted By: Rob D.

(Great card, by the way. Enjoy it however you want.)

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Posted By: T E

Great card to share like this. When my apartment was robbed way back when, I took consolation that the crooks didn't get this card. I looked at it many times, wondering who the portrait was (I was a big bb fan but not really t206 collector, once I figured out that the ghost was not Wagner I figured it pretty much worthless but VERY cool, which is really what collectables is all about).

I agree whole heartedly with the sentiment that it is a shame that it is encapsulated, I had the card raw for 25+ years, but it is like taking out insurance on an item, if a card has certain value it is wise to authenticate.

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Posted By: Adam

This is a neat card, no doubt, but $45,000????? Really????

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Posted By: MVSNYC

i usually don't comment on such matters or get involved in any drama...

BUT, that starting bid is a real shocker

to me, you can take a zero off of the end.

card is worth maybe $4500

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Can someone provide the link. Thanks in advance!

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

here is the link:
http://tinyurl.com/6ljg3b

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Posted By: Trae R.

The price is obviously far-fetched, but what really strikes me as odd is that the Cy Young ghost image is the main selling point made in the auction. I am more interested in the fact that it also has a Brown Old Mill overprint. I would be willing to bet there are more print freaks than Brown Old Mills out there. A combination of both is simply amazing.




---
"There ain't much to being a ballplayer, if you're a ballplayer."
-Honus Wagner

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Posted By: Matt

Guys - might I suggest we don't call out a fellow board member publicly for a high listing price. Consider if there was a board reader who was considering the card at that price and now certainly won't. A little "Do onto others..."
just a suggestion in hopes of promoting board unity.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

Matt- like i said, i usually never get involved in any drama on this board, and i truly wish the seller luck (we have had a few pleasant email correspondence in the past)...but, as a T206 collector of 20 years, i had to agree with Adam's "call-out"...if it was listed at $10,000 (which is still above its value, IMO), no one would have said anything...but it was listed at $45,000...and it got properly called-out.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Your point regarding the BROWN Old Mill (So. Lge. back) is well taken. I don't think Amer. Litho. ever intended to print this back.
It was an unintended color error probably due to running out of Black ink. In the 6-color process employed in printing the T206's
The first 3 color passes were Yellow....Black....Brown....in that order.

TED Z

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Posted By: Bill Kasel

Fantastic card, every time it comes up I enjoy seeing it again. There's nothing wrong with the $45K price IMO. All it does it generate a buzz that will likely make it known to more of the masses driving up the price (even if it's only a 10th or so of the posted starting bid). Smart marketing at a minimum (if it works )

Thanks again for sharing!

Bill

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I guess I don't know enough about this card. Why is it being called the "Rosetta stone" of T206 cards? What exactly did we learn about the printing process of T206's from this card?

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Posted By: T E

When I first posted a picture of this card on this board a couple of years ago, in one post I said off-handedly, "If it was worth $3,000, I'd probably sell it." I received a blizzard of offers at that point. My experience with auctions and similar situations tells me in such a case that the object is worth considerably more than the initial offers. What is the true value of the card? I don't know, but it is one-of-a-kind, and it is a geat looking card. If it doesn't sell I am very happy to keep it. This card means a lot to me sentimentally. But $45,000 or more, sentimental or not, will send it away.

The Rosetta Stone reference is because this card proves several points about the actual printing process. The Rosetta Stone was a tablet that enabled scholars to cross refence an extinct language with a language the scholars already knew.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

TE, I know what the Rosetta Stone is, what I'm wondering though is what secrets to the printing process of T206's did your card unlock?

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Posted By: T E

I was refering to comments made about the card on this board in the past, ie, I think Ted commented at one point (I think it was Ted) that the card proves that the backs and fronts were all printed at the same plant, also, to my eyes, card seems to demonstrate the process used to print, and possibly the color order. Rosetta Stone seemed like a fun way of expressing that. But I am open to suggestions on the text...feel free to email- hoofaway@aol.com
Tom

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Posted By: Todd C

As someone already put it.....you can never get tired of looking at that card.

Thanks for sharing !!

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Posted By: johnny

i don't post as often as i should, but i check this board daily to see any t206 scraps/errors/ unique t206 oddballs...it's all i collect, if you watch ebay, i won the recent chance printers scrap (sorry for the lack of scan/picture)...anyway, this card is a beauty!!!

without listing all the obvious about the card, what i am pretty interested in how this card has the front and backs all printed on the back....i'm very interested in the brown o.m. which is in my opinion the color error, among other interesting images....i am dissapointed in the , for the most part, almost diamond "factory " cut.....i honestly like a very oddly shaped t206 scrap that was "hand hacked", but this is pretty clean..
it almosts leads me to believe it was found post production, but that can't be the case, i guess i feel the same as alot of you, the card actually makes me wonder more than answer...


the price i never like to discuss, but i really wish i could bid on this card and others to determine the actual market value...

anyway, it's nice to see!!!!

johnny

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Posted By: T E

Johnny, it is my belief that this card was circulated inserted into unknown brand. It may have been used as scrap on reverse side at factory, but at some point, it was turned back over, and then cut and distributed in whatever pack it was inserted into. This card was one of about 180 I bought in a shoebox from a nostalgia type store back in the 1970s. The store had just purchased them from original owner's family. The collection was fairly typical for what a boy growing up in New York area would have collected back in 1911, weighted towards Hall of Famers (three Cobbs, at least five McGraw, several Matty, I eremember quite a few New York Giants in the group) all in Gd to Ex condition with a few lower grade, no reverse stock loss on any, and nothing out of the ordinary but for this one. The backs were as I recall mostly Sweet Caps and Piedmonts, a few Old Mill, a couple of El Principe, American Beauty, etc. Definitely no Polar Bear, I would have remembered that! It looked like a normal kid's collection of baseball cards, much like the Topps cards I had collected in the 1960s. I can't believe that this one came from anyplace else but a pack of smokes.

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Posted By: johnny

thanks for listening....i think ur right, this one slipped thru.....but, i would suspect a few more to surface, i have seen none like this......i have been searching for these oddballs now 12 years or so, i have never seen one with so many backs, i have seen some with multi backs....all different types up to 3 overstrike multi backs...never one with a portrait/back multi combo as nice, really a true gem, you are truly right, i look at these like little works of art and think they are undervalued now big time, they are pretty rare and more collectors suck them up!!!45,000 is a little steep, but i think one day that might be a reasonable price...obviuosly you love this card and i know how you feel t.e....i become attached to my errors and wouldn't want to part with them at any price sometimes...they are one-of-a kinds and in my opinion are much rarer than realized...

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Posted By: Lyle

but had a question about the price . No disrespect intended , but how did you decide on $45,000 ? Is it purely random or is it based on a sale of another error card ? I understand you can ask whatever you want for the card but was just wondering .

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Posted By: Paul S

Lyle, it's like getting 6 cards in one
Very cool card(s), though.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Damn, and I was going to put in a bid for 38K.

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Posted By: peter ullman

I agree...this is an amazing card...and I'd love to have it in my collection. I can also understand the asking price as it seems you really don't want to sell it. On the open market I'd guess it'd sell for less than $20K...still a princely sum for what may have ended up in the trash many years ago.

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Posted By: Lyle

it's over $7k per card !

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Posted By: Matt

nm

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Posted By: T E

Because it is beautiful. An image like this is created by either genius or a lightning bolt accident. Since Warhol and Lichtenstein weren't around in 1909. it's the lightning bolt that wins by default. I believe this card has aesthetic appeal beyond baseball.

I can tell you that if you hold this card and look at it, you will be transfixed. There is something about his card that grabs you. Visually, it doesn't let go.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

TE, for 45K that card better do more for me than just not let go.

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Posted By: Tim

I can’t justify the asking price for this card but was wondering the following...
Has there ever been another card even close to the complexity of this card discovered before?

I for one don’t find value in printing run errors that aren’t what a lot of us consider true “error” cards, but this card seems to be much more than that.

If there were several other cards from this sheet on the market, or others similar in its mass eclectic appearance I could see how it could be dismissed as just another goof.

Someone I think, and more than likely not a traditionalist collector, will buy it and for what I presume to be a pretty good sum. Someone I think who views it more like a work of art than just a baseball card will love to own it. The market for it will be narrow, but could still command a nice price.

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Posted By: johnny

tim,

you are right a narrow market...this card, to me, is rarer than a wagner...yest206(honus), this might make people mad, but look at the ratios...75 wagners??

one oddball, but doesn't have the hype and history of a t206 authentic wagner, but is a one of a kind....beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

don't get me wrong, i'de rather own a wagner, but to me this is a "poor man's" wagner such as myself!!= )

a true collector would need this, but like mike said, not more than $4500 which is still steep, i would say $2500....
ebay,$5,000 big auction....no disrespect t.e., these are just estimates off the existing markets for these cards...some big guys have been silent on them..


let this card go and let the market determine it!!!!!!!!!!!

t.e., if not stop teasing us!!!LOL

thanks for listening,this is just one mans opinion...no disrepect to anyone....
johnny

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Posted By: Scott Levy

As a collector of print rarities....I'll throw my hat into the ring. It's certainly not unusual for print errors with multiple back strikes to sell for a couple thousand bucks, and none have been nearly as amazing as this one.

Two things are really unique about this particular piece. First off the Cy Young overprint and second, the ultra rare brown old mill strike. Personally, if I owned this card I doubt that I'd ever sell it.

Having said all that, I wouldn't be prepared to drop 45k on it....but I certainly can't blame the owner for setting a high price and failing that to keep it in his collection.

Regards,
Scott

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

I suppose the novelty of this card would be appealing to some. Back when I still collected cards, there was a very short-lived hype with all of the multi-overprinted scrap illegally salvaged from the dumpsters at Upper Deck in 1989. From my recollection, those were long ago written off as worthless. To me, this card is no different (I am not saying it is without value). Just one guy's opinion. As somebody pointed out elsewhere on this site, the material I specialize in is also esoteric, so to each their own. I'll never understand the hype in this case.

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Posted By: Rhys

As the baseball card hobby moves closer and closer to the destiny of stamps and coins, things like this happen. Coins and stamps place a high value on misstrikes and errors and things just like this Cy Young. 10 years ago this would have been either worthless or odd and neat to a couple of guys worth a very small premium. Now $45,000? I remember ordering some T206 cards from a catalog in about 1995 and getting them in the mail and one of them having pieces of 4 Piedmont backs on it because it was so off center. At the time, I was pissed that this flaw was not disclosed, now its worth big bucks.

First it was grading, now its print freaks, but hopefully the end result for our hobby will not be the same as the other two. I think it is a cool card, but the fascination with anything related to T206 cards just completely escapes me.

Rhys

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Posted By: barrysloate

Rhys- it will be the same as the other two.

A lot of coin dealers migrated over to baseball cards, so they will use their coin experience as a template for the card business.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

What you just said is soooooo true. But recall, it 1st occurred back in 1981 when the coin and stamp dealers initially crossed-over
into the BB card hobby. I remember this well....especially, when the first sets of Donruss and Fleer were in the market. Everyone
went "bananas" over the most trivial of errors and variations. Then this craze carried over to all aspects of the hobby.

TED Z

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Posted By: peter ullman

Good observation...damn those stamp and coin bastids!

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Posted By: T E

No sale. Back to the drawing board.

I'll take one more shot at ebay. This time starting price of 99 cents, with a reserve set at a fraction of previous asking price. I do want to sell it but I don't want to give it away.

If this doesn't work, off to an auction house it goes.

It will be a ten day auction, starting Sunday June 29 9:20 PM, ending Weds July 9, 2008. I already scheduled it. The item number is 120277495275 but you won't be able to view it until it starts. I tacked on a larger image of the card itself, so it is worth a look.

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Posted By: Adam

Good for you for starting it with a .99 cent price. Even if the final bid does not meet your reserve, whatever the final bid is should give you (and everyone else, including myself) a good idea as to the approximate value. I would say in that 4k to 5k range, but let's see what the market says!

Good luck,
Adam