Am I wrong to be mad? Ebay

[Archive]

Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

Ok, this is part making sure I am not overreacting and part venting. I won 20 auctions for single raw vintage cards last week, exhibits. The total amount was $380 plus I was charged $24 dollars for shipping and insurance. I get the package yesterday I notice its a small bubble mailer with insurance, total paid $7.57. I open it up to see all 20 cards had been put in one 5 x 7 top loader and just inserted into the bubble mailer. This leaves the card nearly freefloating, corners not protected and now I have 3-4 cards with corner damage. I have emailed the seller and I am awaiting his answer.

I am upset on many levels, one I paid $24 for shipping and insurance and the seller looks to have spent at max $8. Hell I would not have even minded paying the extra shipping if the cards had been securely send and packaged well. Two, now I have a few cards that were damaged and most that made it ok. What should I do about feedback? I will wait to see what they say but I am leaning towards leaving at least one negative as this to me was just too much.

I also think this person is a poster here and has had items on the bst before.

Any advice appreciated.

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd C

I can see the extra shipping charge, but to see all of the cards in one card holder is disappointing when spending the money you did.

[Archive]

Posted By: Mark T

you CAN NOT leave negative feedback even though you were the buyer. I left feedback yesterday (positive) and when i clicked on Leave Feedback tab a screen came up saying buyers are no longer aloud to leave negative feedback.

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve

That's some fuel surcharge!

Scott,

Sorry about your plight. Yes, I would be PO'd. Communication is the key, the Neg would be a last resort IMO.

You have several options, Compensation for the downgrades, a full return or, return damaged ones for partial refund, the postal insurance route?..

Incidentally, just because someone posts to the VBC, that doesn't exclude he or she from being a sloppy seller. To the untrained observer, in the hobby boards exist a seemingly, prevalent loyalty in appearance, but in reality there's very little kinship -shh, our secret.

Good luck with your situation. Steve F

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve

I am under the impression that only buyers can leave negative feedback.

Sellers no longer can.

For that money your seller should have sent priority mail (boxed) for 7.00 max.

Not sure what I would do at this time, (I'd wait for the seller to reply)

Good luck and sorry this happened to you.


Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: Martin Neal

If the shipping was clearly stated in the listing, then I would not be upset at the cost of shipping. I always check the shipping costs and reflect it in my bid. Occasionally a seller will reduce the shipping costs for multiple items without asking them to. I would be upset at the way they were shipped. Regardless of what a seller charges for shipping, you have a expectation it will arrive undamaged.

[Archive]

Posted By: David Poses

I had an experience like that once- the seller did not discount shipping even though I had won 10 individual card auctions.

After I won the auction and received the invoice, I asked if he discounts shipping for multiple auctions- he pointed out that nowhere in the auction did it state that he would discount for shipping and that I should understand that shipping and packaging takes time and money, etc.

I understand the economics, but I was mad, as there was a $4 for each card (these were about $10 cards each). So replied to his reply saying that if he wouldn't discount shipping, etc, I would like each card mailed individually since I'm paying for it anyway. He didn't respond to that, and about a week later, the package showed up.

The package was standard bubble package with 5 toploaders (2 cards each). Total costto ship was (i think) about $3.

Needless to say, I was not happy, and just thinking about it now makes me mad.

The seller is no longer on ebay.

[Archive]

Posted By: Alan

Scott -

If the seller is a member of this forum, then things have the potential to get ugly. Like buying a used car (which is a lemon) from a friend...

[Archive]

Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

Thanks for all the replies. I am still waiting their reply and hoping things will be taken care of.

I really am just baffled that someone who collects cards (the seller has a lot of expensive cards in their ebay store) could mail them the way they did. They had about zero chance to get to me undamaged, I'm guessing the person was just too busy or had someone who doesnt understand cards package and ship them. Either way, no excuse in my book.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well I hope this works out well. Packaging should have been better. And shipping charges less.


Realistically, if a buyer can't leave a negative, what's a buyer to do when dissatisfied with a purchase?? Must we now always use Paypal, send the items back, and force a refund? I think it probably should have been changed so a seller couldn't leave a negative, if it was to me changed for one only. After all, once a buyer has paid and sent an address, what is left for them to perform?

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve

Buyers can still leave negatives, Sellers can no longer.


Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: Mark T

The pop up told me "buyers can no longer leave negative feedback"

Anyone else see this when they are about to leave feedback?

[Archive]

Posted By: Pcelli60

Yes.

[Archive]

Posted By: Anthony S.

Buyers can still leave a negative. The pop-up is worded awkwardly, but it reads:


"Buyers, you can no longer receive negative or neutral Feedback from sellers."

[Archive]

Posted By: boxingcardman

Forget the charge, there is no excuse for shipping as you've described. What's so hard about a card saver for each card and a couple of slices of cardboard?

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

[Archive]

Posted By: Matthew

I dont think he should charge that much. $24 shipping looks like he spend $8 in total. thats a profit of $16. Thats a total rip off to the person buying. The selling is totally robbing you with out a gun. I would hope he atleast wears a mask while he is on ebay selling. Thats my opinion. Have nice day

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason

While I'm not defending the seller. Its not really 16 dollars profit. There would be costs involved in purchasing the bubble pack, top loaders, gas to the post office, etc.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank B

I don't think some sellers grasp that when they gouge on shipping it's a
big turn-off to many. I can see leaving yourself some room for error but charging
two and three times what gets spent is lame. Had a guy charge $5 a card and refuse
to combine shipping on four cards won. Since he wouldn't bend I instructed him to
send one to my dad, one to my office, one to my home and one to a friend. He ignored
my shipping instructions and shipped them all in one package. Cost him $4 and he pockets
the other $16. I'd have left him a neg but he became an "unregistered user " soon after.

[Archive]

Posted By: jim

If it is who I think it is, I had the same shipping and handling problem. 3 cards stuffed into one bubble mailer; lucky the cards were graded or they would have been damaged also. He also wasn't very happy that I called him out on his shipping overcharge. He did change the charge but only after I pointed out to him that he was wrong in trying to charge me $12 for shipping. Funny thing was, that before I proved him wrong about the overcharge, he told me to walk away from the deal! This astute business person said I should be happy for getting the cards so cheap. If it hadn't been for my bids, he would have even made less! Needless to say, I will never bid on his items again. I will leave it to Scott to out the guy.

[Archive]

Posted By: Alan

Someone please say WHO the seller was. The suspense is killing me.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rawn Hill

This should be interesting. I love watching a train wreck.

Rawn

[Archive]

Posted By: john w

Shipping properly is the responsibility of the seller. I charge either $3 or $4 for the first card plus an additional $1 for each additional card. Sometimes someone wins a dozen cards and I may or may not discount the shipping and handling depending upon value and mood - my discretion. Everything is spelled out, but the bottom line is the safe and secure delivery of the product - not price. It seems that people put a premium on the cost (hopefully clearly spelled out) as opposed to delivery competence.

edited to add: in my diatribe, I forgot to answer the OP's question - yes, you should be mad, not at the cost, but at the improper shipping practices.

John

[Archive]

Posted By: Matthew

John, I dont think they are putting a price on it. How much better can a seller pack something by charging 24$ compared to a normal fee of i dont know 5$. I am sure it wont sit right what you paying 24$ for item and after it arrives you see it says 3$ on package. I dont care how good it is packed. to pay 24$ is totally nuts. Thanks Matthew

[Archive]

Posted By: george "bulldog" adams

vintage*investments is the seller. bulldog

[Archive]

Posted By: john w

Matthew,

Respectfully the charge is shipping and handling - at least on the paypal notes. I feel that a company has the right to charge the customer an appropriate fee to "handle" the card. I will now get flamed beyond belief - lol. Really, if everything is spelled out in the auction descriptions, after the fact negotiating or complaning is innapropriate. Factor the cost into the bid. $24 to pack a box IS excessive, but don't bid, win, and then bitch. I usually cap the P&H cost but do not advertise because of several potential factors.

Again, the responsibility to deliver the product safely, regardless of charge, is totally upon the seller.

[Archive]

Posted By: howard

You probably will get flamed by some, John, but I agree with you.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bilko G

The shipping charge would not bother me so much, as you say you won 20 auctions and paid $24 for shipping. So really, even though the seller only paid $8, you only paid $1 dollar and change per auction, for the cards to arrive to you. Id pay that all day for shipping of cards from ebay. But, sticking ALL the cards in one top loader? C'mon, that is totally unacceptable and id be very upset as well. You would think someone selling vintage (or any cards worth more than a dollar) would know way better than this. Unless i got a substantial refund, that I was happy with, a (or numerous) negative(s) are in order, IMO.

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric B

Cost is OK as it was agreed upon. Not taking proper consideration to deliver all cards safely is not OK. Many negatives are in order if you are not Significantly compensated. I don't mean just partial refund for 3-4 items.

[Archive]

Posted By: PC

No excuse for poor packaging. Especially when you pay a high shipping price.

I once had four graded cards sent in a single bubble envelope. That's little flimsy, but ok. The real problem was the clear packing tape that the seller wrapped directly around the stack of slabs. The front of the first slab and the back of the last slab still have glue residue.

I know, I can use a glue remover or WD40, but how hard would it have been to wrap the stack with a sheet of newspaper and then tape over that. I got the impression the guy did it on purpose, perhaps because he expected more for the cards.

Give him a negative if he doesn't offer you something for the damage.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

The packaging is the main issue to me....One time I won 8 $1100 cards from an auctioneer and they all got sent, one on top of the other, in one single top loader...no penny sleeves no nothing...One top loader with all of the cards in it......ah, the good ole days

[Archive]

Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

Well got a reply-

Scott-

I am a very busy person and have just added help with my auctions. I will look into the matter. Let me know if you want to return the lot.


Jason


My reply-

Hi thanks for the reply and looking into this. Since the majority of the lots I won are fine I am only looking for a resolution on the 4 cards damaged and the poor packaging (20 cards in one top loader and charged $24 for this) that caused this mess. Waiting to hear your reply. Thanks Scott

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

Steve is correct, I just clobbered someone yesterday with a negative and I was the buyer. I paid with paypal and had received nothing 10 days later. I called the seller and he said he shipped a few days prior. I wait another week and filed a paypal complaint. I then receive the item post marked the day after the paypal complaint was filed. I was lied to and it was a hassle to get my item = negative.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason Duncan

As the seller vintage*investments:

Scott-

I am very disappointed that you didnt contact me before starting this thread. I am a very busy person so I will make it quick.


1)- I CLEARLY state the shipping and handling charges in all my descriptions. It was not a big shock when you won these cards. Yes if you would have emailed me I would have given you more of a break, but I recently hired help (about 1 month ago) to run my auctions on ebay for me.

2) As far as packaging, I package things really well, check out my feedback. Now, the fact that I have someone doing it for me may and could be an issue, but I doubt the cards arrived as bad as you say they did. I will look into it. Also did you turn down insurance?


3) I would have been MORE than happy to refund you completely if you would have just emailed me first before posting.

It really cracks me up how ebay buyers want to complain about shipping cost when they win multiple items EVEN THOUGH THEY CLEARLY SEE THE DESCRIPTION. I charge $3+ 50 cents per additional item for shipping and hanlding because it helps offset gas, holders, mailers, hired help, etc. I never see anyone bitching when they win an item ver y cheap for 99 cents complain because it goes for 10% of book or something. You knew the terms which were reasonable. If you want to return the cards feel free even now, but please email me before starting a thread. I could start many threads on bad buyers but I like to take care of the issue myself like a big person.


Oh and yes I buy as well. I also pay higher shipping rates than I charge, but before I bid on an item, I READ and do the math on the shipping and figure it in my bid. Maybe this is a method you can try and have great success with! Let me know your intentions with this package. I would gladly receive it back.

Jason
816-294-9847

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve

Jason, In Scott's defense the Buyer never outed you -it was that annoying little ankle biter.

Hope it works out for you Scott. Steve F

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

I sell as well Jason as darby-s and I would never charge $24 for a bubble mailer no matter what is in it. I don't charge extra per each additional item and never really understood that. I do add extra if the weight increases from multiple items and if it gets heavy enough, I will ship it in a priority box. Priority is great for heavy stuff. As you stated, you clearly posted your terms and as a buyer myself, I would have read them and either figured your shipping into my bids or not bid. I think you did well to stop by and give your input. You have won my vote as a good Joe! Dan.

[Archive]

Posted By: Chris_Long _Mgmt

There are a few new undocumented rules going into effect on ebay as well as the ones you have all noticed already recently implemented.

The last poster who mentioned leaving a negative after communicating with the seller on many levels is completely warranted and within his rights. On the other hand, a buyer who simply leaves a negative for a seller because he was upset over shipping and never communicated those facts to the seller or gave them an opportunity to resolve the issue might see some "scolding" from ebay over that action.

In addition, there is now (or will arrive very shortly) a "cooling off" period before leaving a POWER SELLER a negative. A message will be indicated also prior to the negative that instructs you to be sure you communicated with the seller in attempts to resolve the situation instead of just being in a bad mood that day and BAM he gets it where you think he deserves it. The warning message will be the catalyst for ebay to go back and remove the negative you left them if in fact you DID NOT exhaust all your options before leaving the negative, specifically for Power Sellers, since their satisfaction rating is now part of their financial model for paying fees and staying in the PS program.

Simply asking the seller what their shipping policy was and asking for a brief explanation of how the cards would be shipped and packed would have also led to a better understanding of the upcoming transaction for you. Communication is the key! If you don’t get a response from them, you can always bid on a single item, request their user info, give them a call and ask in person. This method is not the “devil” and is encouraged by ebaY as well as top level sellers. When calling a seller be sure to be kind and maybe say something like “Hi, I am one of the bidders of you ebaY items and had a few more questions about your items”. Please don’t do something like block your incoming number, refuse to give your name and be rude, that is why some buyers just shouldn’t call.

Good luck and try and give the sellers an option to resolve the problem prior to leaving a negative feedback…or low DSRs for that matter. They seem to be even more important now than the negatives. ebaY is sneaky

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

I don't know about this Chris: "Simply asking the seller what their shipping policy was and asking for a brief explanation of how the cards would be shipped and packed" As a buyer, I shouldn't have to ask every seller of every item I win of how they are going to package it. Dan.

[Archive]

Posted By: Fudd

anonymous post......you need to put your name out here to post like this, Fudd.....Nothing personal against you but it's the rule....

Brian M- you are correct..... (leon)

[Archive]

Posted By: shammus

Fudd,

Fair warning, you need to have your name and email address next to each post you make on a controversial topic such as this one. Nothing personal but we don't allow anonymous posts in any thread that is of a controversial or confrontational nature.

Another thing, watch the name calling. We don't allow personal attacks here either.

Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

OK Jason, thanks for posting.

To clear up a few things.

One I did send you an ebay message before posting here, I waited half a day then made the post.

Two as I stated above I paid your shipping fee and while I think its very expensive for 24 raw cards, I would have been fine with the price if each card would had been say in a card saver IV and shipped securely in a box. I normally dont contact a buyer for a special discount on shipping, I usually expect to see it on the invoice when I purchase multiple items. I also sell and I always give my buyers a discount on the invoice, I dont make them send me a message. Im busy, your busy, why have to create extra work?

Three, As I said i got 20 cards and 4 are damaged (corners bent) so you think they didnt show up that bad??? I felt lucky that only that few were damaged. I could have easily said the whole lot was messed up but I didnt. Come on, 20 raw exhibits in one 5x9 bubble wrap and all the cards in one 4 x 6 top loader. Also my invoice was marked Insurance included so I did pay for it. Granted, the cards were damaged because of the negeliance of the person packaging them not the post office. Sounds like you need to sit down with your help and show them how to properly package and send cards because all of this could have been avoided.

You state- "but before I bid on an item, I READ and do the math on the shipping and figure it in my bid. Maybe this is a method you can try and have great success with!" I did READ your auction and did figure on the shipping cost, I paid that cost and expected to recieved my cards in the condition they were auctioned in, that didnt happen so please dont say this is somehow my fault.

Oh and as someone stated I didnt out you.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Do you really think half a day is long enough for a response before you post a thread, seriously?

[Archive]

Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

Your probably right Leon, more time for a reply would have been warranted but my first post was more to see if my thinking was wrong in being upset, get ideas from the board on what I should do and to vent a little, I also said I was still waiting to hear from the seller and was not taking any action till then. Then later the seller claimed I made my post without contacting him first which was not true.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason

Scott-


I cannot figure out why how this makes sense. So help me. You say that 20 of the 24 were ok as advertised but you say 4 were creased. You also claim I sent these all in one toploader and that they were damaged by the sender, not the PO. I am not contesting how they were sent, however. Now your claim would make more sense if in fact ALL cards were damaged and not just 4 out of 24. This is what I have a problem with believing your story. I still in fact would be willing to refund you completely on the lot if this helps. Just think about what you are claiming before posting me out in a forum as a bad seller. I have done numerous transactions with folks on this forum and never had any issues. Just ask around. Next time contact me and give me a reasonable amount of time. Again I am extremely busy so it may take a few days.


Thanks
Jason

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I'm still trying to figure out how it's even possible to cram 24 exhibits in to one 5 x 7 toploader.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

They folded 4 of them in half

[Archive]

Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

I won 20 cards, of those 4 were damaged. The top two cards, one near the middle that came loose and the bottom card. The 4 cards had corner damage, not creases. The reason they had the corner damage was they were pressed in one top loader and they were way to thick to fit putting too much pressure on the corners, thats why they had damage. These were exmt-nm cards so corner damage makes a big difference. If the cards had been all creased and badly damaged and the bubble mailer was in bad shape then I would agree that the damage was done by the Post Office. That was not the case, the bubble mailer showed up looking full with normal wear, nothing that would have lead me to believe the cards inside were damaged.


If you still dont understand how they could be damaged then I will try and post pictures so you can see.


As far as refunds, if this had been one auction/lot, then returning it would be my choice. This was 20 auctions and 16 of the auctions showed up fine. So I am only looking for a resolution on the 4 auctions that were damaged and the shoddy packaging, prefer to send the 4 back to you but open to any idea. I will get back with you on the exact 4 auctions tonight (the cards are at my home).

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve

None of this surprises me.


Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: george "bulldog" adams

hey steve winpitcher did you buy goji juice from this kid. bulldog

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve

It really cracks me up how ebay buyers want to complain about shipping cost when they win multiple items EVEN THOUGH THEY CLEARLY SEE THE DESCRIPTION.



What cracks me up is how you are attempting to blame the buyer. He wasn't complaining about the cost, he
was complaining about the service provided for said cost. Also, he didn't out you Bulldog did, lastly
he did pay for insurance (why that even matters) is beyond me.

What cracks me up is sellers that blame employees when something goes wrong instead of just accepting responcibility.


Steve


Edited to add: Na Bull he did though try to push it on me.

oh yeah that and a free T 206 card.

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

Ok, this post broke a couple rules so I'm striking it. No personal attacks allowed and you need to put both your name and Email address next to your posts. Nothing personal, but I did warn everyone up above. If you have an experience that relates to this thread, great, please feel free to share it but please do so in a constructive manner.

Thx,
Brian