Iconic Memorabilia Auctions

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Posted By: Jeff Woolf

Hi Everyone-

Greetings! My name is Jeff Woolf and I am the Principal Managing Officer of Iconic Memorabilia. Some of you may know and have done business with me and my previous companies (Universal Rarities, Odyssey Auctions, Heritage-Odyssey).

I wanted to let everyone know that our Spring 2008 Auction will be closing this Friday, May 30th. While our auction is primarily based in autographs and memorabilia, I wanted to let the board members know that we have several dozen card lots, ranging from 1909-11 Caramels to a nice 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle to contemporary autographed inserts.

Most of the cards in our sale are graded and authenticated by the major firms (PSA, SGC and/or GAI), and all autographed items in our sale are accompanied by COAs from at least one industry recognized Third Party Authenticator (in most cases multiple COAs). Starting bids on our lots range from $10.00 to $5,000, so there's really something for every type of collector in our sale.

To check out our sale and to register to bid, just go to http://www.IconicMemorabilia.com.

Thanks for your time and please feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions whatsoever.

Respectfully Yours,
Jeff Woolf
Iconic Memorabilia LLC

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Posted By: DD

Hi Jeff,
Respectfully, what does second generation Fro-Joy mean? (Your lot 1071)

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Posted By: leon

Hi Jeff
Welcome to Net54. Unfortunately the lot with the 2nd generation Fro-Joys is/are fakes. Not sure if you know that or not...Good luck in the auction...........
best regards

edited to tone it down a bit and typo...

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Posted By: Dennis W.

You should also know that there is a card in your auction that at some point was torn completely in two and glued back together. GAI has somehow managed to slab it as "Authentic". I sold the card a few months ago (un-slabbed) with full disclosure. There is no mention of this condition issue in your auction ad.

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Posted By: Jay

Jeff--Why do you keep changing the name of your company?

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Posted By: Steve

This is gonna be a fun ride.

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Posted By: Jeff Woolf

Hi Jay-

Well, I worked for several of the companies I mentioned (Odyssey, Heritage)
and then in 2005 started Universal Rarities with a partner. Things were
going well but my partner was just not cut out for the auction business,
so at the beginning of this year I decided to part ways and start a
company on my own. I would have continued with the UR name but under our
partnership agreement I would of had to pay my partner for the name, so I felt it was best just to start my own company with a
new name.

Hope this helps clarify things!

Best Regards,
Jeff Woolf

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Posted By: Jeff Woolf

Hi Leon-

Second generation is a euphemism for reproduction. I've talked to a couple people and am going to pull the lot.

Thanks for the heads up!

Regards,
Jeff W.

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Posted By: Steve

Jeff, Will the repair, that Dennis mentioned, be disclosed?

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Posted By: Jeff Woolf

Hi Steve-

I would like to look into the situation but do not know what card Dennis is referring to. DENNIS - Could you please tell me what card you are talking about and provide any other supporting detail to confirm that this is indeed the same card?

Thanks,
Jeff W.

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Posted By: Steve

Jeff, smart move.

img removed

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Posted By: Jeff Woolf

I pulled out the card and took a good look. You are indeed right about the tearing and it is now noted in the description. Thank you for your help!

Regards,
Jeff W.
Iconic Memorabilia LLC

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Posted By: Dennis W.

Jeff,

Kudos for your immediate response to the card in question. Best of luck in your auction.

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Jeff,

Were you joking when you said "Second generation is a euphemism for reproduction" or are you saying you knew they were reproductions but decided to describe them euphemistically in your auction?

If you knew they were reproductions but decided to call them "second generation" I would take that more as you being the pitcher and your bidders being the catcher. If you know what I mean.

-Ryan

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Posted By: Preece1

Your posts always make me laugh. Please keep it up because in the world of finance these days, I can always use a laugh.

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Posted By: John

Avg. singer...but one hell of an arm!

"You're God Damn Right he is!" 1min 15sec in...

http://www.iconicmemorabilia.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=14281&getauctionid=65

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Ryan, that was a very funny post. Would a third generation card be one in which a plastic holder contains no card at all?

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Posted By: Adam

I think a third generation is a photocopy (on regular size photocopying paper) of a second generation.

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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Love this thread...

I think a third generation copy also involves a Betamax player and possibly an Etch-A-Sketch.

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Posted By: Jeff Woolf

Gotta admit that this chain following Ryan's post is very funny.

But, on a serious note, I was not trying to conceal the facts about the lot by using the term "second generation"...though I will concede that "reprints" would have been the more logical term to use. Sometimes when you are writing descriptions bleary-eyed at 3 in the morning things don't come out as effectively as they should.

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Posted By: Tim

If I had a "third generation" Honus Wagner would that be the equivalent of a "second generation" Arky Vaughn?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Reprint is the common baseball card term, but by definition second generation, third generation and later generation all mean 'not original'-- first generation being the original. Many would consider reprint, reproduction and second/later generation to be equivalent or at least similar terms, each indicating that an item is not the original and likely made at a later date.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

"I was not trying to conceal the facts about the lot by using the term "second generation"...though I will concede that "reprints" would have been the more logical term to use. Sometimes when you are writing descriptions bleary-eyed at 3 in the morning things don't come out as effectively as they should."

Riigghhhttt...Do you really expect us to believe that a very creative euphamism was easier to come by "bleary-eyed at 3 in the morning" than the much simpler and more accurate word "reprint"? And if you are writing descriptions at 3 am and are so out of it that the obvious evades you, do you think that you are doing a service for your customers and consignors by not proofing the work later? What are we to conclude from this: if we disbelieve your explanation we have to conclude that you tried to sell a fake item described with weasel-words that were calculated to mislead a novice while still protecting you from being accused of selling a fake, but if we accept your explanation we can conclude that you are so irresponsible as to be writing bad descriptions at times you are not capable of working and not proofing them later. Either way, doesn't inspire confidence...

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Matt

Suppose it was mistaken wording and he meant to write reprint - why was there a $100 minimum bid for 6 reprints?

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Posted By: Jeff Woolf

Glad to see that you have enough free time to think up conspiracy theories and expand on them in detail on message boards.

I think it has been clearly explained that 1.)The term "second generation" is indeed commonly used to reference reproductions (as supported by davidcycleback's post) and 2.) I was unaware of the general availability of these reproduction cards, and as soon as I discovered there was a great disparity between my opening bid price and their true value I immediately removed them from the sale.

We have 1,400 lots in our auction, of which only about 40 are card lots. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a card expert when it comes to the 19th century to 1940s issues. I made a mistake and corrected it. End of story.

If anyone else has any legitimate discussion topics that require my input feel free to post and I'll be happy to address. Discussing this particular topic any further is like beating a dead horse.

Have a good day everyone!

Jeff Woolf
Iconic Memorabilia LLC

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Posted By: DR

Any OJ memorabilia

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Posted By: Jim T

First, understand that the collectors on this board are very knowledgable about cards from the 19th century to 1940 (many are experts) and they have seen all the various scams before. I am not suggesting that you were intentionally trying to scam anyone but it is an extremely common ebay practice to list reprints with vague disclaimers or downright deceiving descriptions. The skepticism on the part of board members has a lot to do with being fed up with seeing these daily scams perpetrated on unsuspecting buyers. It is bad for a hobby that we enjoy and care about.

I respect that you quickly removed the reprint cards from your listing and edited the listing for the other card. However, I expect someone running an auction for any kind of collectible would be knowledgable enough to identify common reprints and then use the standard hobby terminology in identifying them.

Again, don't be offended by our skepticism. Understand where it comes from and visit the board regularly. You could quickly become an expert with the wealth of knowledge that is shared on this board.

Jim

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Posted By: davidcycleback

As they were never described as originals and were removed, I would consider the Fro Joy situation seems to be a minor issue at best. Obviously, baseball card collectors prefer the terms reprint or reproduction, as it is clear to them what these terms indicate.

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Posted By: Jeff Woolf

Point taken, Jim. I thank you for your post. I do understand the concerns of the board and appreciate their comments--even if they can be a little harsh at times.

There are a lot of people who fear these boards, and I've received several emails from people who have warned me to stay clear and/or gave me kudos for having the gumption to come on here. One of the big reasons I decided to post on here was for the fact that I would be criticized. I look at criticism as a positive thing.

But, like with any other auction company, people have to understand that with an auction of 1,000+ lots there will be a few mistakes, and also a few lots that have to be withdrawn due to new information that comes to light after publication.

If I make a mistake and are notified of that mistake and don't respond or correct it, then go ahead and question my credibility. But, if I acknowledge the mistake and take the appropriate action (which was withdrawing the lot), then don't continue to question my intentions. It's like double punishment.

Ultimately, in my opinion, the good does outweigh the bad (or annoying) of this board, and I look forward to learning more about vintage cards from everyone and sharing my own knowledge from time to time, if needed (which is primarily geared toward autographs and memorabilia).

Regards,
Jeff W.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

About all auctions I've followed, from Mastro to Christies, edits description or removes lots during the auction. All auction houses, and single sellers, make errors, and fixing an error as it is pointed out is a good, not a bad, trait. Obviously an auction doesn't want to have too many catalog errors to correct, as it won't make them look good.

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Posted By: Steve

Jeff,

For sure, it'll take a bit longer to be accepted here than most boards... Make no mistake, the critical tone and of many of the board members here have saved a lot of newbees a great deal of heartache (and cash). Skepticism is a necessary quality in this hobby. Steve F

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Don't worry Jeff, the first time I posted here I got a double noogie and wet willie.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

You got lucky David...I got a Wedgie and a Charlie Horse.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Reminds me of the South Park episode when Butters had to go to the hospital due to a severe indian burn. "Worst case I've seen," said the doctor.