What Do You Do When A Card Has Been Lost In The Mail?

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

I sold a card to someone on the B/S/T forum several weeks ago and it appears as though the card has been lost or delivered to the wrong address or misplaced by someone in their household or complex. I'm speculating but it should have certainly arrived by now and hasn't. I saved the shipping receipt to show that I did indeed send the card, I always save my shipping receipts from transactions. The buyer never asked that I purchase insurance for the card or asked for delivery confirmation, though I feel bad I didn't ask him if he wanted it. This has never happened to me before and I'm not sure what the proper thing to do is. On the one hand I feel bad that the card has potentially been lost, but on the other I don't really want to refund the purchase because then I'm out of a card and the money I sold it for. What is the proper thing to do? Is it just something that happens from time to time and the buyer takes the loss?

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Posted By: Dave F

Is the other party invovled a well known member here?


How much was the transaction for?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Since the package wasn't insured, did you establish before you sent it who would be bearing the risk?

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Posted By: Matt

Addie - is what you have a receipt that you paid for postage or proof that the item was actually shipped?

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

It was for 150 dollars.

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

Its a shipping receipt which is proof of the shipment of the package, not a postage receipt.

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Posted By: Matt

Addie - how do you get a "shipping receipt"? When I mail something with USPS (without registered mail, insurance or delivery confirmation) all I get is a receipt I paid for the postage. Is that a special service you can request for a fee?

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Posted By: barrysloate

What day was it shipped? Some of my packages take 10 days to 2 weeks but they get to their destination.

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Posted By: Mark T

I shipped at Sporting life wrapper to Scott B. on Nov. 15 2007...he got it around Jan 17 2008.

I had a delivery confirmation though and was able to track it.

Edited to say: i would refund the $ and have an agreement that if it shows up, you get the $150 back. that seems fair.

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Posted By: Anthony N.

In my opinion it's the buyers responsibility to get payment to the seller, and the sellers responsibility to get the merchandise to the buyer. I always include insurance (and delivery confirmation/signature confirmation if paid via paypal, per their rules) as part of the shipping cost. It's there to protect me, but is part of the transaction and is a cost covered by the buyer.
When shipping is included in the price/offer I still always include insurance.
If you're doing a lot of selling you might consider using collect insure to cover it. Sorry this has happened to you.

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Posted By: Dave F

I would say for $150 the seller should take the hit. Unless in your for sale post you specifically said this price doesn't include insurance, etc. If you put in there $150 for this card then I'd expect I'm going to get that card for $150..and if I don't i'm going to expect you'll compensate me for that.

If you didn't bother with insurance or even spend 60 cents on a delivery confirmation...how can you blame someone at the other party's house for possibly taking it? The insurance or at least a d.c. is there to protect you as well as a buyer.


It always helps to spend an extra $1.65 and have $100 insurance thown on it...you woudln't believe how more likely your package would arrive.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

This recently happened to me on an item. I purchased something ($50) and it was sent without insurance and we had no agreement as to insurance. I know the seller is honest. We agreed to split the difference. I was refunded $25.00. I felt it fair becuase I never asked for insurance even though the seller never asked me if I wanted it. Certainly when you are in the hobby as long as we all are, I know that insurance exists and don't feel like it is always the sellers job to ask me if I want it. I could easily have spoken up and said I am giving you an extra $1.50 to insure this.

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Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

On a related note, I am still waiting for a package sent to me registered mail 11 days ago. How long can registered mail take (it was sent from the midwest to the northeast)?

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Posted By: Dave F

Registered mail and take forever...but is pretty much the safest way to ship something...so I wouldn't worry at all about it...just hope it arrives before Memorial Day!

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

I see what you guys are saying but I don't really want to refund the purchase. If the buyer wanted insurance he could have asked and I would have gladly purchased it. I have a receipt that says the postage paid and the destination of the package, so it was sent. Its easy to say just give him the money but what about me and my loss? I'm out a card and the money I got for it which I've already spent. I wouldn't say I'm at any more fault for the loss than the buyer seeing as neither of us are responsible for packages arriving or not arriving. The deal was made for 150 total with shipping included but not insurance and insurance or delivery confirmation were never discussed. If it had been I would have gladly opted for whatever the buyer wanted but they never brought it up. If it were e-Bay I don't think I would be liable because insurance and delivery confirmation is either stated in the description as being included or up to the buyer to request it.

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Posted By: Matt

You should probably split the loss then. And you've learned an expensive lesson - always ship with at least delivery confirmation.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Addie,

Actually, with eBay, the seller is responsible - not the buyer. Any claim would always be against the seller since as was pointed out, it is the seller's responsibility to get the item to the purchaser. Now, if the seller offers insurance and it is declined, the burden shifts to the buyer.

In my example above where I decided to split it with the seller, it was more of a reputation thing. I've done business in the past with the seller, will in the future - we both decided on an amicable solution and $25.00 wasn't a whole heck of a lot of money.

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

Addie,

It is on you to see if the buyer wants insurance and as far as a delivery confirmation that to is on you as well.

If you want some creditability with this board and the B/S/T section of this site then you need to refund the full $150. The backlash by not doing so will end up costing you a lot more then a measly $150.00

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

What does the buyer want. I NEVER send something that valuable without insurance. Would have been another $3 or so. Just to be sure. Know that doesn't help you now though.....Don't think Delivery Confirmation does ANYTHING for you either other than tell you it got there or it didn't. If it's lost, since they don't scan anywhere other than at delivery, you got nothing. 60 cents not well spent. Insurance is better if you ask me..........more expensive but it is what it is........insurance.

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

Well there's another side to this. The name of the buyer is not the name of the person I shipped to. I shipped to the address associated with the paypal payment, but it is a different person than the guy contacting me about the card. I am thinking perhaps it arrived to the paypal address but not the buyer's personal address? That could perhaps explain why he hasn't received t. I contacted the buyer a few minutes ago to see if that is the case.

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Posted By: Matt

Tom - with delivery confirmation, if it shows delivered, I would have an easier time telling the buyer that it got to him and therefore I'm off the hook. I agree it's not as good as insurance/signature confirmation however.

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Posted By: peter ullman

seller should be responsible. i usually take a loss on shipping/insurance because this isn't a business to me...it's a hobby...and I'd rather lose $5 on that end than the whole kit and ka-boodle if it never arrives.

pete in mn

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

For almost every transaction I've ever made on eBay or otherwise as a buyer it was I who asked for insurance or delivery confirmation. I'd be willing to split the loss but I'm not going to refund the whole purchase because then what am I supposed to do? To me, the insurance is a fault we both made and therefore should both shoulder, I don't see any sense in me bearing the full brunt of it when both of us are as guilty as the other.

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Posted By: dennis

if you sold a $150.00 card and shipped it with no delivery confirmation or insurance i think you are at fault. imagine if you bought on line from ANY RETAIL STORE(wal mart/sears,ETC) and never recieved what you paid for. you call them and they say well we shipped it,too bad. it's their/your responsibility to get the item to the buyer and insurance or at least delivery confirmation should always be in the price when sold to insure safe arrival.

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Posted By: Phil

I think it is the Seller's responsibility. Look at it this way, if you purchased something from a major on-line retailer (Best Buy or something) and paid for it, but never received the item, wouldn't you expect Best Buy to ship you another item?

I'm not comparing you to a big business, but it should be the seller's responsibility. As someone else stated, to take a $150 hit will go an awful lot further for your reputation than anything you could have purchased for that $150.

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

I see, I will ask the buyer if he will be happy with a 75 dollar split for the cost. Its not as though I'm just saying "too bad I shipped it take my word for it" I do have proof that I sent it. I don't think he's a dishonest guy and would just claim that he never received it so a split in cost seems fair to me. I will wait till he checks with the address and person the package was actually shipped to first though.

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Posted By: leon

Corey- Registered mail is safest. I bet they don't lose more than 1 in a million of those packages...I am sure you are fine. You will win the Powerball lottery before you will have a registered package lost.

On this transaction, imo, if nothing was said then it's up to each party to get their respective part of the deal to the other....If I do a deal and nothing is spoken about then it's on me to get my part of the deal to the other person. Just my opinion and the way I do business. This could be a relatively cheap learning lesson. regards
ps...splitting the loss can take some pain out of it but I still don't believe the buyer had any duty if not spoken about beforehand.

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Posted By: Phil

Why should the buyer lose $75......he did nothing wrong and didn't receive his item?

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Posted By: T206Collector

a) purchase insurance for cards valued at $50 or more (it takes a few minutes and costs a few dollars, but nothing to lose sleep over -- like losing $150);

b) have my personal collectibles insurance with CIA that would cover losses like this. Haven't had to use it.


I once received a sheet of T206 cards -- they had been glued together on a sheet -- and it arrived ripped in one corner, destroying the Griffith and the Huggins that had been glued there. Fortunately seller had insurance, and the post office paid me for the loss in value as a result.



_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

I didn't do anything wrong either and I'd be out a card and money. To me, both of us are at fault for not asking the other to insure or if they wanted insurance. You guys are of the similar opinion its my fault and thats fine and valid points have been made, but I'm not a businessman I'm just a kid who sold a card to someone. I put the card in the mail and then never saw it again. So if you want it to come down to who is at "fault" neither of us are and neither of us "did anything wrong". The situation needs to be rectified no doubt but I see an equal solution as the best one.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Addie- I sell baseball cards for a living and every package I send out is insured or registered. I think you should either request a little extra in postage from the buyer, or just pay the insurance yourself. It's not a good idea to send valuable merchandise uninsured.

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Posted By: Dave F

Addie-

The fact that your "just a kid" as you say means nothing. I'm assuming your 18? The BST is supposed to be a responsible place for transactions to take place...and its built on trust. If your not trustworthy and won't stand up for your items being delivered than that will reflect any future sales you have on this board. The fact is you could have gotten $100 of insurance for a $1.65. Your still making out a whole lot better than the fees you saved not putting the item up on ebay. "just a kid" doesn't hold water.

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Posted By: Martin Neal

I just recently had this happen to me. I sold PSA 4 t206 Chance to a board member in San Fran. After a couple of weeks he informed me that he had not received the card. Not to worry, as I always buy insurance on cards worth over $75.00 or so. After finding the USPS receipt, I discovered that all I had done was get a delivery confirmation for this package. The buyer was more than gracious and I sent him the tracking number for the item. Meanwhile, I approached the problem at the Post Office only to learn that the most I could hope to expect was for the package being "discovered" at the regional office for lost mail in Atlanta. Finally after a couple of more weeks, I refunded the full amount to the purchaser as I felt it was my responsibility to insure the package arrived to him safely. If you do not request the buyer to pay extra for the insurance, I think the onus is on the seller to provide it. A week or so later, the package arrived in San Fran and the purchaser sent me another payment. That would have been the first package that I had ever lost.

Addie, You aren't out the card and the money, just the card, the money was the purchasers.

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Posted By: Dave F

And if i'm the buyer in this situation and the seller claims someone at my house may have took the card....well, I'd be on the border of irate.

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Posted By: Mark T

a card from Barry off Ebay, i did see he charged me $5.00 for shipping but that included insurance. Thats fine with me because the total for shipping and insurance will probably be more. Also, its a card i would hope to arrive safely.

My idea for every B/S/T would be charge a buyer for insurance and if he/she complains then save the email, ship the card without insurance and you are covered.

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

Dave F you have an axe to grind. I didn't claim someone took it, I don't know where he lives. If he lives in an apartment complex it could be that someone else living in the complex received the package unknowingly or that someone picked up the wrong mail. Don't be so assuming or quick to judge. It's clear something is bothering you today but don't take it out on me.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Mark- It came to $7.87 But I am happy to pay the difference because I can't deal with the aggravation of losing a valuable package and not having insurance.

I will say however that last year I sent a $60 package that was lost in the mail. It was fully insured and I put in a claim. About a month into the process I just sent the $60 to the buyer so he would not have to wait any longer. In the end it took me about three months to get reimbursed. That included the people at the post office filling out their part wrong, and the process had to be started over from scratch.

The aggravation and time wasted was substantial.

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Posted By: Joe D.

IMO -

It is completely the responsibility of the seller to get the item to the buyer.

If it is lost - - and not insured - - it is the sellers loss / not the buyers.


ALWAYS SHIP WITH INSURANCE - or take on that risk yourself.

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Posted By: Matt

Addie - this message board isn't like others - when you disagree with someone please don't start calling them names.

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Posted By: Dave F

Addie...nope, no axe to grind. I don't like the fact however because your "just a kid" it makes this all ok. And as you stated....

"I sold a card to someone on the B/S/T forum several weeks ago and it appears as though the card has been lost or delivered to the wrong address or misplaced by someone in their household or complex."


Fact remains...if your telling me someone at my house misplaced, lost, stole, etc a card shipped to my house then yes I'm going to get irate...thats basically going with the excuse that someone at the buyer's house is a moron.

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Posted By: Zinn

refund the $150.00. Period.

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

Like I said Dave, it was addressed to a different name than the person contacting me about the package, so yes, I think it is entirely within the realm of possibility that someone looking for a package addressed to one name would not notice a package addressed to someone else. Is that too much to handle? If someone were sending something to me but addressed it to my room mate or dad or whatever, would I notice it had arrived? Perhaps, but perhaps not. If my paypal address is different from my home address and in a different name, wouldn't I think the package got lost in the mail and maybe forget to perhaps check with the other address? I suggested possibilities and never accused anyone of anything, sit back and relax.

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Posted By: quan

the bst has gotten very complicated over the years with all the extra rules and disclaimers etc...luckily it's still free

i'd just split the difference...of course when the buyer requests i send it to a different address because of paypal i'd be cautious and request they buy insurance just in case, seems a bit messy.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I agree with Quan and others. Once you were requested to send the package to a different name, I would have treated myself to some insurance. Things can just get complicated.

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Posted By: Rob

When I sell something on the B/S/T for under $75 to someone I recognize or has a good reputation, I don't put insurance on it. If they never get it, I give full refund. I figure it evens out between the number of packages that get lost and the money I'd spend on insurance. And I hate wasting time/energy trying to make claims w/the PO.

If the sale is over $75-100 or I don't really know the buyer, then I put insurance on it.

I once bought a $50 card on ebay and didn't get it. The seller gave me a full refund, so I gave him 1/2 of it back. I trusted that he shipped it and just didn't think he should take the full loss. Maybe the buyer in this case will feel bad for Addie_Joss, but unfortunately the burden is on you Addie, IMO. $150 is alot of money (at least to me) especially for a "young" person, but if you are gonna deal in big money then you have to understand the risks and protect yourself. Lesson learned.

Rob

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Posted By: Phil

I think you have learned a $150 lesson.

It could have been much higher. You now will no longer ship without insurance and will save yourself $$ and aggravation down the road.

I think you need to refund the money. The good will you will get from that is worth a heck of a lot more than $150. If you don't, people will be leary of doing business with you which you can't get back once you've lost it for any amount of money.

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Posted By: Anthony N.

Addie- hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's my understanding that any transaction paid via paypal MUST included delivery confirmation (or signature confirmation if over $200) or they will take the money back from you in the event of a dispute. And I believe that shipping to a different address or an unconfirmed address will cause a dispute to be settled against you as well, although I've heard there were some changes in that in the last week.

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Posted By: Addie_Joss

If delivery confirmation must be purchased why doesn't paypal expressly state so in the transaction? I saw no notice of such in the transaction details. Am I missing it?

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Posted By: Dave F

I asked from the start is this a recognizable board member...you didn't answer. There are board members I've dealt with that I would in fact send their cards elsewhere at their request...either they were in Canada and that just made it easier on me...or whatever.

So before anybody starts spinning this that the buyer is partially to blame because he asked the package go to his dad, or a friend in the U.S. if it was a Canadian buyer or whatever...should probably find out if this other member is a recognizable person on this board.

And if he isn't somebody you recognize, then it goes back again to why send a package somewhere you don't feel comfortable and not put an extra couple bucks towards insurance?

You can say whatever you want about me Addie..bottom line is i've been on the receiving end of this...and it is YOUR responsiblity to get the card where its going. I have two packages going out today or tomorrow...one worth about $1000 and one worth about $2500....I'd rather spend the few bucks to insure the packages and not have to worry with splitting something 50/50 with a buyer when all he has to do to start is send you a payment...his end of the deal is complete. If not, then start putting in your for sale posts that prices aren't gauranteed to arrive!

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Posted By: Joseph Shirley

I always pay insurance for an item I sell. I don't even ask the buyer. I think of it as a small price to pay, to avoid these difficult situations.