Robert Edward Auctions - Up For Bidding

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Posted By: T206Collector

....and the Beckett Wagner is already at $100,000.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/



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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Bill Stone

and 5 bids already on the T210 Stengel --this is going to be fun!

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Posted By: dan mckee

Whoever is bidding $110,000.00 on that beater Wagner is a complete idiot! Wish me luck guys, signed - complete idiot.

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Posted By: Matt

good luck Dan!!!

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Looks like the idiot got outbid already.

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Posted By: dan mckee

bummer! don't count this idiot out yet, I may still have some game in me!

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Add the juice and you're over 140K on that POS.

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Posted By: Anthony S.

Dan,

Does one take extra special precautions when removing a T206 Wagner from it's plastic sarcophagus?

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Posted By: Matt

Does anyone know what will be featured in the Mastro auction that starts accepting bids on the 14th?

BTW, interesting that REA opens for bids a week before people will get their catalog; I'd imagine their non-internet bidders might be a little annoyed to get the catalog, and call in a bid, only to find the item has already been bid up well above that. Sure, they weren't going to win it anyway with that bid, but I think it would still feel bad as they thought they'd be in the mix.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

Anthony, your question makes no sense. Dan is buying it for the slab, not the card, and therefore will not worry about how to remove it.

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Posted By: Jim Dale

Going up fast...

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Posted By: barrysloate

There is an interesting debate going on regarding lot #12, The Old Man CdV. Originally identified as Bernie Hannegan, with that name subsequently placed on the SGC label, Rob is now making the case that it is in fact Dave Birdsall. And my opinion is that is incorrect.

I was the one who originally identified this CdV. When Leland's first got it a couple of years ago, Josh sent to me a group of 1860's material, including this image, to research and help write up. After a little bit of legwork I recognized it as the mirror image of Hannegan as he appeared on the Nov 4, 1865 Leslie's woodcut. In fact, in 1866 Leslie's did a biography series in their weekly newspaper and asked every club to pick their most important player and write up a short summary of his career. In the December 1, 1866 issue the Morrisanias profiled their most important player, Bernie Hannegan. There is an engraving that accompanies it and it matches the image of Bernie on the CdV. I also have an unpublished photograph of him to corroborate this.

Rob, to his credit, did some further research and found that Dave Birdsall did have the nickname The Old Man. Certainly interesting, but I don't think the likeness is accurate.

Anyway, I will try to get these pictures to Rob and see if he changes back to Hannegan. We spoke on the phone at length this afternoon and he was a good sport about it. He said he would be happy to emend the text again if need be.

My guess is there will be opinions for both players, so we may never definitively solve this mystery.

Edited to make the text a little clearer.

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Posted By: Marc S.

I believe that REA is not the only major auction outfit whose bidding opens before catalogs typically arrive.

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Posted By: Jay

That guy's head is shaped like a top.

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Posted By: Matt

I didn't suggest they were. I just find the practice interesting.

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Posted By: MW

Barry,

The facial similarities between the player on the CDV and David Birdsall strongly suggest they are the same person. Bernard Hannegan had a rounder face with different eyes and different hair. The additional documentation from two historical sources (see links below) identifying Dave Birdsall as the "Old Man" makes the case indisputable, imo.

Source 1 -- "When Johnny Came Sliding Home: The Post-Civil War Baseball Boom, 1865-1870" by William J. Ryczek

Source 2 -- "The Minor League Milwaukee Brewers, 1859-1952" by Brian A. Podoll

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Posted By: dan mckee

WOW! No question, I am with Michael Wentz on this one. Hey Todd that was good! But then I thought about it and actually, and make sure you are sitting down, I would pop the Wagner but only to submit it to SGC for a nicer holder. I own 2 graded cards in my keeper set and both are SGC. My hand cut T206 Plank and my 1952 Topps Mantle. Dan.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Interesting, but I see a resemblance to both players.

And since the CdV and the image on the Leslie's woodcut are unquestionably the mirror image of each other, then the newspaper would have to have gotten it wrong. And that is not impossible.

The jury is still out.

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Posted By: Matt

Barry - do you have an image of the woodcut or the newspaper clipping you can post?

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Posted By: barrysloate

I don't know how to scan or post images, but perhaps I can get some help and have them posted later. The woodcut engraving I have is clear, but the photocopy of the unpublished photo is not. Don't know how helpful a scan of that would be.

In the meantime, if anyone can post a scan of Hanigan as identified on the Leslie's woodcut, that would be instructive.

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Posted By: Adam

I bid 12k on the PSA 3 Magie and thought I had a good shot at winning with that bid. Oh well, game is over for me! Good luck to whoever is in the lead now.

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Posted By: Jay

Barry--In the 1867/1868 Morrisania team picture, the facial image of Birdsall seems like a dead ringer for the facial image in the CdV

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Posted By: MW

<< And since the CdV and the image on the Leslie's woodcut are unquestionably the mirror image of each other... >>

Barry,

They are not mirror images of each other. The poses are distinct. In fact, this is a fairly common 19th century pose for certain position players. See below.

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Posted By: barrysloate

The fact that Birdsall was referred to as The Old Man in two articles also weakens my argument significantly.

However, the images I have of Hanigan are extremely close, and likewise the fact the the Leslie's engraving used this photo is irrefutable. So if it is Birdsall, Leslie's got it wrong, something we never knew.

So we make a new discovery one way or the other.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Michael- they may not be exact matches but remember the Leslie's is an engraving, which was done by hand. It sure looks to me like the artist used that photo for that image. And they are both wearing Union uniforms.

But I am also willing to admit that I may be wrong.

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Posted By: Greg B.

I actually counted how many T206's are in this auction, I came up with 3,438. The only cards from the set not represented are Plank and Doyle err. If you consider Cobb/Cobb back a 206 add it too.
Greg

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Posted By: barrysloate

That's roughly the equivalent of seven complete sets.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...are really common, but the number of people collecting them is also so much higher, so the demand evens out the supply a bit. If money and condition were no object, you could put 500 or so of the 524 together on ebay in under a week.

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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Bob

Well, the economy may be suffering and sales on ebay may be lagging but the prices on some of the cards on REA indicate that certain cards are going to go for record prices. Some caramel cards I bid on, and intended to bid on again close to the end, are shooting up way too fast for me

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Posted By: barrysloate

I still can not fathom why bidders run the lots up so high the first day. There's another month and you can't win them until they close.

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Posted By: JimB

Barry,
I think some people bid things up early to scare people away from the lots they really want. It is an intimidation technique. Others want to know if they should switch to concentrating on choice #2.
JimB

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- I think it has completely the opposite effect. It just sets the bar higher. If a lot has 12 bids the first day, it creates the impression that it must be worth a ton.

And I would say in the majority of cases the bidder who is high on those particular lots on the first day will not win them. Somebody else will.

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Posted By: JimB

I understand why the auction houses do it, but for bidders, not knowing how many different bidders there are on the lot one wants makes strategizing a bit more difficult. Are those twelve bids representative of twelve people interested in the lot or two enthusiastic people, or somewhere in between?
JimB

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Posted By: Eric Brehm

Another reason many bidders may place early bids is to make sure they get one of the (effectively finite number of) qualifying bids on items they may be interested in before things get too crazy. Then they can go back later in the auction and decide what they want to get serious about. My guess is that what you are seeing is many different bidders trying to get qualified for the final closing period, not two people trying to blow each other out of the water on the first day.

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Posted By: barrysloate

With REA's site you can determine some bidding patterns. Even though all the bidders are anonymous, you can go on the bid history and see the times the bids were executed. If one bid came in at 5:28:30, for example, and the next bid at the same time, you know there was a ceiling bid.

Today I went onto the bid history of one of the key lots that already had double digit bids (I forget which one). There were two or three qualifiers at the bottom, then a high ceiling that was challenged and run up to the max or near max.

Now why is that going on on the first day of a thirty day auction? What can possibly be accomplished? So let's say the bidders now know they are up against a ceiling- there are thirty days left, what happens today is irrelevant.

Edited to add Eric (since we were posting at the same time) there are in fact high ceiling bids being challenged on day one.

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Posted By: Joseph

There's another reason why someone might bid early in an auction....


For one minute earlier today, I WAS THE HIGH BIDDER ON THE T-206 WAGNER. For those short moments in time, I was on top of the world! And I've got a screen shot to prove it!

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Posted By: Eric Brehm

People place ceiling bids in order to secure a particular "slot" in the series of finite qualifying bids. If more than one person attempts this on the first day, the bid level will rise right away. Nothing puzzling about that.

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Posted By: barrysloate

The sequence isn't puzzling, but the strategy is. You have plenty of time to secure your place throughout the course of the auction.

The people who win the most lots in my auction do not reveal their hand so early. The early bidders remain high on many lots for nearly the whole time, but win few at the end.

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Posted By: Eric Brehm

Barry -- I see what you mean. But in my case at least, I worry more about not being the guy with the guts to raise 10% at the final hour, than about showing my hand at any given time. But that's just me.

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Posted By: barrysloate

No matter what your strategy is, you still need to execute the last bid. No other bid will win the lot.

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Posted By: LetsGoBucs

Well as one who sometimes simply puts in my top bid I do it mainly for conveniance. I travel a lot and unfortunately in the past have missed out on winning auctions because I "forgot" or had changes in travel that interfered with my ability to bid.

A secondary reason is one that was mentioned. I decide how much I'd be willing to pay and since most auctions predetermine the next several possible bids....I select the one that will result in coming closest to the price I'm willing to pay.

And lastly, I don't understand all the "waiting"....if your interested just bid....not interested then don't bid...I know I'm old fashioned and believe auctions are actually supposed to be run by a guy that you can barely understand what he's saying....but why do all these auctions need to last for weeks at a time....with overtime periods?

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Posted By: barrysloate

I fully understand that some people have a maximum in mind and just want to leave it and forget about it. That's a reasonable strategy, but I still think it can be difficult to win a lot by placing a ceiling the first day. It's possible, but the odds are against it.

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

prices seem strong for the first day...

oh, and shameless plug.. get your bids in...

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=10966

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Posted By: Matt

These first day prices are incredible! There are several lots which wouldn't surprise me if they ended at their current bid, yet we're not even 24 hours into the auction.

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Posted By: Bill Stone

I hope you are right but I suspect, at least on my lots, the bids will still go higher. Does this impressive start validate the Brockelman & Luckey decision of no auction catalogue?

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Posted By: Matt

Bill - great point. I think it does show you can get incredibly strong bids with no catalog.

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Posted By: James Gallo

Ok so this has been bothering me ever since I first saw pictures of that Wagner.

Does anyone else think it is undergraded? I mean the creases are small and not super heavy, I guess the rounding to the top drops it, but damn that is the nicest 1 I have ever seen. I think it would have a shot at a 20...

Thoughts

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

James -
What I really like about the card is that the image is almost untouched by creases or blemishes.
This one really has a striking image that has incredible color and clarity to it.

Tony

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Posted By: T206Collector

...in the grading spectrum, the 1 is more a testament to the fact that it has not been altered (i.e., trimmed, recolored, etc.) than an explanation of what is wrong with the card. Obviously, you can see what is wrong with the card just by looking at it. Whether it is a 1, 1.5 or even a 2, a card like this will sell based on its visual presentation, which is quite strong.



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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: James Gallo

Ok yes this may sell for more then a more worn 1, but I have to think that has to have a higher value as a SGC 20 or 30 with nice eye appeal then a Beckett 1 with nice eye appeal.

You can't tell me that the grade and holder don't have some impact on price regardless of eye appeal. If I have my numbers right I believe the last few 1 Wagners sold around 150,000 with 2's being around 250,000. So if this card sells in the 250,000 range does that mean others think as I do and will try to get it bumped and perhaps resell it as a nice 2 hoping to get in excess of 250,000 because its so nice or did it just get a premium because it's nice and correctly graded as a 1.

Or is it all a moot point as it's sich an expensive card there isn't going to be much of a difference either way.

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.