T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!

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Posted By: Jamie B

Figured I would give you t206 maniacs the link to what youve been waiting for.. wish I could afford it..

http://tinyurl.com/27tjpt

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Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

Love to see what it looked like before it was restored.

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Posted By: Trae R.

Here's the scan from a Mastro auction it was sold in:



I think it went for around $15k.

I don't know how to locate old listings on Mastro though.




---
"There ain't much to being a ballplayer, if you're a ballplayer."
-Honus Wagner

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Posted By: Andrew S.

If the Plank had been designated "Authentic, trimmed" instead of "restored"...what would it have realized in the Mastro auction? Higher or lower than 15K?

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Posted By: Dave F

Andrew-

I think it would have went higher if just designated authentic. I personally don't care for authentic cards..but would have to assume if it was just labeled and authentic and the thought was it was just trimmed it would go for significantly higher than a Plank that has been "restored".


Dave

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

The known and well recognized 1st series Eddie Plank card is a Sweet Caporal 150 back with a FACTORY 25, VA.
This one has a Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 30, NY back.
Unless, this is an unprecedented printing error, I am very skeptical of it ?

The 2nd Series Plank is a Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 30, NY.

I question the legitimacy of this card....and, how the heck did it get by PSA ? ?

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Posted By: Jamie B

Teddy Z.. nice eye.. leave it to the Z-man to spoil everyones hopes of buying an authentic Plank..

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Posted By: barrysloate

I'm with Ted that something isn't right here...was it rebacked?

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Posted By: Andrew S.

I'm not surprised it got by PSA because the Gretzky/McNall card got by them. This Plank card is probably from the same 1950s reprint set. Which factory is on the back of the Sweet Caporal Wagner?

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Posted By: Jamie B

Andrew.. whats wrong with the gretzky wagner?

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Posted By: Anthony S.

You need to buy it, Jamie. Your T206 set will never be considered complete without a Plank. These last three months will have been for naught.

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Posted By: Mike (18colt)

Jamie -- trust me on this one, but a quick search will find you a plethora of info on the infamous Gretzky Wagner and peoples' thoughts & opinions (& some facts, too).

By the way, Jamie, did you get my reply yesterday? I haven't heard from you. Shoot me an e-mail either way, please.

Mike (18colt)

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Posted By: Jamie B

Mike I'll get back to you tonight on that....
Anthony .. screw the plank.. Im happy at 520.. I got my $15 old school plank reprint to act as a filler

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Posted By: T206Collector

Before the parlance was T206, collectors used to call the T206 set the 521. You have to at least get Magie or Plank to get yourself to 521. (:

(Keep in mind, this from the guy who now has 15 unsigned T206 cards since he sold the rest to get his beater Plank and Magie -- and two dozen signed T206 cards.)




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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Jamie B

I hope that was a joke about 521.. I never heard of that before ... 520 is where Im trying to get and what I though most consider a complete set.. and until I get 100K.. its where Im going to stay

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Posted By: Anthony S.

Jamie, both Paul and I were kidding. I bought my first T206 in about 1978, when I was a kid. I still need about 7 cards to complete the set. It's not that they aren't out there, I could buy all 7 this week, I just like to always have that one set I'm pecking away at ever so slowly. Your sprint has been fun to watch.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...about the name of the set being called Set #521 (though Burdick referenced at the time that only "several hundred" were known. And the gold border set was known as #520, and it doesn't have 520 cards in it.

All of this is from the following article, which is long but fascinating:

http://www.oldbaseball.com/refs/1930s.htm

Still, I thought it sort of poetic that it was listed as Set #521.

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Posted By: Anthony S.

Crap. Now I have to buy that Magie back.

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Posted By: John

Ted, Z good call on the back I had just placed a bid on this card. That sure is a head scratcher, perhaps the alterted part is it was re-backed???

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

It should have been labelled....."PROFESSIONALLY RE-BACKED", not "PROFESSIONALLY RESTORED".

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Posted By: barrysloate

Absolutely Ted! There isn't enough information on that label. And a rebacked card should not be slabbed under any circumstances.

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Posted By: John

Ted agreed 100%, I was sort of ok with a card with touched up corners perhaps even a mild re-build on the surface etc. To me eye appeal is everything, amd having a 150 series Plank with a great image means a lot to me seeing as I'm not quite ready to drop 6 figures on one.

Everybody draws the line somewhere in the sand I'm ok with a rebacked OJ, just not quite ok with a rebacked 5+ figure card, this thing truly is a Frankenplank!



How does one even get a card like this in a holder?

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Posted By: Jamie B

i guess i helped saved you 10Gs... your welcome for the thread willy wonka.. now send me my golden ticket... aka t206 cy young glove showing one of the 4 i need

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Posted By: John

Golden ticket on it's way, although oddly enough the res. wasn't met so I most likely wouldn't have won anyways, I never win...LOL.

The real hero is Ted I would have never looked. Goes to show one can’t become too dependent on slabs and auctions, every time I give some of these guys a level of trust and blind faith I regret it, very misleading auctions both times this card was listed once beofore in Mastro and now on eBay.

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Posted By: T206Collector

This is the Plank from the April 2007 Mastro auction:

http://www.mastroauctions.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=70940

Encapsulated and assessed "Authentic/Altered" by PSA. Presented is a professionally restored example of one of the most valuable cards in the hobby. The offered card would pass the scrutiny of most of the hobby's leading dealers, as only under careful examination could restoration be detected. Paper fibers of the same age and material have been added to the corners, though this is not detectable even under 10-power magnification or with a black light. Only a few tiny, spotty areas of the deep, rich blue background have been in-painted to restore continuity to the piece. The restoration was performed at the highest level of expertise and was not done with the purpose of passing the card off as completely original. The card presents apparent Excellent to Mint condition. If not restored, this certainly could claim to be one of the finest Eddie Plank cards in the hobby, having the boldest, richest image with perfect clarity. The dot patterns, seen only under magnification, are completely intact on 99.9% of the card. The Sweet Caporal ad reverse is fully unimpaired and no inpainting of text is evident under magnification. While we were not witness to the card's original state, we were informed that the card was in Very Good condition prior to restoration, with significant corner wear and very minor surface wear. Post-restoration assessments concur with this evaluation. The tale of the Plank card still perplexes our hobby nearly 90 years after it was issued. As it rode on the coattails of the famous Honus Wagner card since the beginning of the organized hobby, Jefferson Burdick didn't know of Wagner's or Plank's existence at the time of his first 1939 edition of the American Card Catalog (he listed only 521 cards in the set of T206), forever attributing to them a place of reverence among advanced collectors. No credible explanation has ever surfaced to explain its rarity. Some ascribe it to the same reasoning behind Wagner's scarcity—an aversion to tobacco smoking—but this is as unlikely for Plank as it was for Wagner. Did Plank follow suit with Wagner and demand payment for the use of his image by the tobacco companies? Possibly, but doubtful. Did the printing plate break? Not very likely. The absence of Plank's card is most evident in sophisticated hobby circles, and few high-grade examples have been seen. Coupled with the fact that the T206 "Monster" set of cigarette cards is one of the most desirable in the hobby, the scarcity of Plank only adds to a collector's frustration and fuels the fires of its value. While the value of the offered, restored version of Plank pales in comparison to an unaltered copy with a similar appearance, an unrestored card in Excellent to Mint condition could approach the $100,000 mark. This Eddie Plank card is absolutely exceptional, and affords the collector the chance to add a spectacular-"looking" key card to his or her T206 set—at a fraction of the typical cost. Our minimum bid reflects the value of the card prior to restoration and does not reflect the tremendous expense of the professional restoration (about four times our minimum bid). A one-of-a-kind opportunity!

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Posted By: John

New cert number on the slab too....must have cracked and given a shot a re-sub to see if it could get past...

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

This is very, very disturbing. At least they could have pasted the correct back on it. There is no excuse for this error
and I am really surprised that a major auction house would promote such a card.

The Surgeon General says...."Ignorance of T206 backs can be very hazardous to your pocketbook".

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Posted By: Rob

"we were informed that the card was in Very Good condition prior to restoration, with significant corner wear and very minor surface wear"

to be able to make a card with sig. corner wear look that good is amazing. would it have been possible to tell the card was rebacked if the fac. was 25?

scary

Rob

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Posted By: peter ullman

the colors look embellished to me...they're so vivid it almost looks fake. Are we sure the whole card wasn't restored?

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Posted By: LetsGoBucs

The quality of the work shouldn't surprise anyone. Yes someone messed up with basic knowledge on the back but the rest of the card would pass mustard as my father used to say.

I think its actually good to get more of these out in the open. Unfortunately, they exist....and they exist in stamps, artwork, etc. If you spend some time learning what can be done to artwork that is damaged, you'll understand that an expert can easily spend some time on a card and you'll never be able to spot the work.

The main difference is that most of the great artwork sells for millions...most baseball cards (the best) sell for tens of thousands.

If nothing else it should make folks pause and think if they really should pay such a premium for the extra grade or two?

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Posted By: Jason L

It's from a SGC40 card I had sold a couple years ago...-would recognize it anywhere!

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Posted By: John

Jason you are joking right...

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

You'd think that somewhere in Mastro's 4000 word description the correct words would have been used.

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Posted By: Harry Wallace (HW)

T206 Collector,

Those are not the same cards. I am pretty sure that I know who owns the one that one and it is still in his collection. The one on ebay appears to have wear in the upper left corner and much wider borders than the one that you are referencing.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...I am surprised that Wonka bid $10,000 on this card in this auction. That's not a casual decision for most folks.

You can draw lines in the sand wherever you want, but ever since this card came into the market last year I felt it was irresponsible to grade it, market it or buy it because of the appearance of impropriety and the ultra-high opportunity for fraud.

It should be either destroyed or clearly marked on the card as restored.

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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

12K. Wonka bid 12K!!!! Hey John, I have this great bridge in Brooklyn that I think you would just LOVE. Seriously, it's perfect for you. 12K and it's yours! Walking distance to the Sloate compound as well.

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

If the one T206Collector linked to isn't the same one, then there are two RE-BACKED Plank cards in circulation.
Check-out that Plank's back....it too, is a Sweet Cap 150 Factory 30.

TED Z

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Posted By: John

Don’t be surprised Paul, I bid on this card once before in Mastro although not heavy 5k or so. I thought it would fill a hole for me and my set, I’m ok with the description that Mastro had, they made it sound as if fibers were added and it was rebuilt a bit etc. They sort of passed over the whole re-back thing but I guess the back from the other card technically had period fibers in it.LOL

Seriously that was really misleading description…..shame on Mastro, but also shame on me for not catching the back factory.

This card if it had the right back I would be happy to have for my placed bid on eBay it fills a hole and looks great, I’m at a cross roads when it comes to the Plank card, I need him for my set but I also really pride myself on eye appeal in my cards, so I have a very little in the way of choices. My choices are pay up to 40-50k+ for one that looks good say a VG card, which I will go for in the heritage auction…or get a filler card that looks like a dog chewed on it from 1909 till 2008 then coughed into a holder. For me I would rather have a presentable card that has been altered in some sort of fashion for 10-12k than a beater or just not have the card at all…

I would also add that if given the choice of a trimmed 150 Plank with a sharp image and a VG Plank from the 350 I would take the trimmed Plank for less money with the better image, I’d save 20k and be happier…

Every collector draws the line somewhere what’s the phrase that’s all the rage around here…collect what you want…

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Posted By: John

Jeff is this bridge within walking distance to cock fighting?

Ted there the same card.

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Posted By: Jamie B

I am somewhat comfused... I gather that the views from the thread are that the card is worthless.... how much should it sell for with it being rebacked.. ?

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Ted and others - not being a T206 combo expert, I will defer to you all but is it impossible that a Plank can have a Sweet Caporal 30 2d NY back, or is it that you just have not verified an example? To me, it seems inconceivable this could be rebacked without there being some evidence of such (like wrinkling, etc).

I'm reminded of when the first Wagner Piedmont's came to market. If my memory serves me correctly, only Sweet Caporal were known to exist prior so conventional thinking was the Wagner could only be found with a Sweet Caporal back.

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Posted By: T206Collector

Funny thing about Lionel Carter, he had a thing for eye appeal in his cards, too. He also spent decades looking for an upgrade, but never found it. That's the beauty of his "dog-chewed" Plank.

Collect what you like, sure, but this card is a fraud in my opinion. And someone paid $15K for this last April with the apparent effort to pass it off as legit, as you explained above.

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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Jeff S.

Trae's scan and the card currently offered on Ebay are the same - the link T206 Collector provided to the Mastro auction is of a different card.

Trae did you grab that from the Mastro site?

edited for spelling

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

For at least 31 years since I've returned to this hobby, there are only 2 back versions known of the T206 Eddie Plank card..

1st series.....Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 25, VA

2nd series.....Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 30, NY

A 3rd one with a Piedmont 150 was found on a colorless proof of Plank.

If any other backs on Plank were printed by American Lithographic, we would have seen them by now. In fact Bill Heitman
would have catalogued one back in 1980.

Finally, the fact that this Plank is being advertised as restored, totally eliminates it from being a "new found" unique Plank
(similar to the Joe Doyle error cards discovered in the 1980's).

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Posted By: John

Paul, not referring to your Plank sorry if you though I was, but rough ones in general.

But fraud…..this is no different to me than a re-backed OJ, or rebuilt Just So, or perhaps even a re-colored Mayo. That was my view prior to the whole re-back factory issue Ted brought up. If in fact the corners were rebuilt and the card was touched up I was ok with that, not sure why one would need to but nonetheless ok with it.

Sort of like Ted Z's white out t206 Young from reading...(sorry Ted) not thrilled but ok with it.

However there are enough Planks out there to have one that has its original back, hence my bid withdrawal I’m not ok with 50% the card not being original…

Also speaking of Lionel Carter, I think you are misrepresenting him on your Plank a bit; I listened to the interview with him. He doesn’t elude that he spent a lifetime searching for another Plank, he basically says he kept that one and never found a better one, not that he was cash money in hand searching for an upgrade for 40+years etc and couldn’t find one.

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Posted By: Scot Reader

I don't think this card has been rebacked.

I wrote the following in my 2006 e-book:

"Plank has been confirmed with the Piedmont 150, Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 25, Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 30 and Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 30 backs."

Accordingly, I must have either seen Plank with SC 150/30 or been informed of its existence from a reliable hobby source.

Perhaps Brian W. or Art M. can shed additional light.

Scot

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Posted By: John

If not re-backed, then I'm now confused....I wish someone would just say here's what was done sort of an before and after....think I'll put the cash towards the Heritage Plank at this point.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

Thanks Scot...

OK Wonka- get your bid back in there now!

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Ted and Scot - I guess both of your responses go to my original question above.

Ted, I completely understand that you have not seen one in 30+ years but if the front/back combo is possible, I don't see how this card can be dismissed so quickly as being rebacked. Again, if my memory serves me correctly, the Piedmont Plank "proof" came to light not too long ago; certainly after Bill's book.

The Drum Cobb was evident it was rebacked - the back looked like it had been reattached. This Plank looks to have a flawless back - how could it have been peeled off of one card and affixed to the front of the Plank without either the front or back having any wrinkles, unevenness, etc?

Again Ted, not trying to be argumentative - I freely admit I'm not a T206 expert. I am just a skeptic who always wants more proof!

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Posted By: Trae R.

Jeff, in my scan collection I have the card labeled as "MastroPlank_Restored_NM". I seem to remember grabbing it from their site, yes.

However, as you will see here:
http://tinyurl.com/2rfb4k

My scan is from the December 2006 Auction, not the one Paul mentioned above, as April 2007.

(The time stamp on my scan file is 11/18/2006)

Maybe there are two of these out there?




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"There ain't much to being a ballplayer, if you're a ballplayer."
-Honus Wagner