T-206 and the Tobacco Cos.

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

By all accounts, the 3 years the tobacco cos. got together and advertised by issuing T-206s as a promotion were very successful. In the present day it would be impossible to have such a venture because of the anti-trust laws.

Since American Tobacco Co. was a heavyweight back then, I suppose they were the ringleader, but did the other tobacco cos. think that this was a great advertising idea? Also, did MLB hesitate in endorsing cigarettes?

Peter C.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jon Canfield

Peter - I may be wrong but I don't think the MLB had a say in the use of images/endorsement of cigarettes. Peronality rights really didn't come around until 1953 in the Haelan Laboratories, Inc. v. Topps Chewing Gum, Inc case.

Also, all of the 15 brands used in the T-206 set were all part of the American Tobacco Company - they were just different names/brands of cigarettes (sort of like Colgate selling Colgate, Colgate Bright Smile, Tom's, etc). There was no agreement between the brands.

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

Yes. No.

The American Tobacco Company owned the other companies. Cards and similar items inserted into products have been widely used from the 1880s to today, so it's doubtful anyone doubted it's in general commercial usefulness. That so many T206s were saved and are still around suggests it's success as a promotion.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I don't think I've ever read anything about MLB's concern about the use of players in advertising tobacco. Something must have changed perhaps in the late 1950s as I can't think of any tobacco ads containing players after that time period. Interesting question Peter.

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

Why would MLB care back then? I bet most of the players smoked, most adults smoked back then as it wasn't known that it could harm you. Didn't magazine ads in the 1970s still advertise players smoking?? I remember Lee May and Earl Weaver on TV smoking cigarettes in the dug out.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I can't think of any magazine advertising using MLB players after the Camel ads of the 1940s. Are there any premiums issued after the Red Man cards?

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve Murray

Radio and TV smoking bans were enacted in 1970 or so. Print media not until the mid to late 80's.

But Dan B. I think you are right. I don't recall many, if any, after the 40's and early 50's.

[Archive]

Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

When i get a chance I'll scan some of the Cigarette advs. I have with Mantle (mid-'50s) and other ballplayers.

Also, don't forget the Virginia Slims Tournament advs. well into '70s and I think into the early '80s.

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I think it is ok to use MLB when referring to the major leagues at the time that the white border cards were distributed...

But realistically, it was The National League and American League. Two separate entities, that started co-operation in 1903, and were still dancing around it a bit, with mistrust of one another, even when these cards came out.

I agree with what is above, that the NL and the AL didn't get involved in licensing of images at the time when the white border cards were issued.


I'm not sure when MLB came into being... they have a logo and all, probably closely tied to the MLBPA, what we call the players' association.


The business of baseball was a bit of a nebulous, infant beast back then... before antitrust and union stuff, before recognized free agency and strikes...

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted,
I think this is one of the Mantle 50's ad's you were talking about.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

The whole ad.. almost...

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

That would have been in 1954 - probably the latest ad I have seen with baseball players advertising for cigarettes.

I think we should keep the subject to baseball only...I don't contest that there were other sports that continued their association with tobacco..ie Virginia Slims and Tennis.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Nov 9, 1953... US Supreme Court decides that baseball is a sport, not a business, and therefore not subject to the anti-trust laws. That protects baseball's reserve clause.

Dec 2, 1953. First meeting of the Major League Baseball Players Association. Bob Feller elected first president.

I gotta figure about this time the two leagues have gotten together and united as Major League Baseball. We'd think it would be before the players, but it might have been in response to them.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jantz

I have seen a few ads even later than 1954 ( might even have one around - finding it is another thing ). I know it was a magazine ad later than 1954 because Roger Maris was the MLB player endorsing the cigarettes. I can't be certain, but I think it was Camel brand that he endorsed.

Jantz

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

1962 Roger Maris for Camel cigarettes:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/1962-Camel-Cigarette-New-York-Yankee-Roger-Maris-ad_W0QQitemZ260156170853

Can we go any more recent than that?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jantz

Nice detective work Dan.

I thought that I had seen an ad somewhere before.

More recent? I remember seeing Earl Campbell doing Skoal commercials on TV. My brother and I used to walk around the house and immitate him in the commercial. Thats how I remember this. Drove my mother crazy.


Jantz

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

As a kid and Earl Campbell fan I got a TTM autograph from him on a Skoal advertising photo. In retrospect the tobacco photo strikes me, but as a kid I didn't think twice about it. He also signed a Topps football card I sent him.

I remember the Dennis the Menace cartoon where he playing Cowboy with a lump in the side of his mouth. The caption was, "No mom, it's not chewing tobacco. It's a tea bag."

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

Let's revisit the relationship between Honus Wagner and cigarette advertising. Why did Honus have his card pulled from the T-206 but later on appears in '49 Leaf as a coach with a chaw of tobacco in his mouth?

Peter C.

[Archive]

Posted By: ScottIngold

Peter,


Why ?

[Archive]

Posted By: Rick McQuillan

Looks like Mick changed his mind about smoking. This is from a 1960 Life magazine.