What does "A" really mean?

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Posted By: Joe Pelaez

Within the SGC letter identity code, what does the letter "A" signify?

I know that it doesn't stand for adultery.

I think it stands for Authentic, but why the entry as an ID for the card?

I thank you for any clarification.

Joe

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

It is my understanding that the "A" means that it is Authentic. But carries with it many possible factors, trimmed, re-colored, Altered, etc.. Sometimes they will list the problem with the card.

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Posted By: jeffdrum

Although is does stand for Authentic, I thnk if you regard it as standing for "Altered" you would be on the right track.

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Posted By: Joseph

The "A" wouldn't stand for authentic since any card that has been graded/slabbed is assumed to be authentic. Inauthentic (unauthentic?) examples are not slabbed or graded (maybe someone should start a grading service for fakes).

Here's the SGC code, from their site:

http://www.sgccard.com/grading_scale.htm


"A"ltered, it is...

edited to make link work...

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Posted By: Cobby33

It is much akin to PSA's "Authentic," although depending on PSA's mood, they don't always slab "authentic" cards which have otherwise been "altered."

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Posted By: MW

The "A" on SGC holders stands for "Authentic"

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Posted By: Russ Bright

is it my understanding that they will slab as "A" if you ASK them to slab it "A" - but NOT tell you WHY it was slabbed "a" - if you don't ask for it, you will get your card back with the reasons WHY -

I got my submission back about a month ago and there were 4 "a" cards - one i could tell was trimmed and the other 3??? no idea, it would be nice to know that the RAW card I spent a couple hundred dollars on was rejected for having color added OR because there was erasing - some alterations i accept happen, and some are to deceive - it would be nice if SGC slabbed "a" and put the reason ON the holder -

weren't they doing that for a while? will I have to resubmit? I would like to know why my cards aren't deemed "PURE"

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Posted By: anthony

my cap anson has an "A" and "AUTH" under it...so i'm assuming that if the card was slabbed and it got an "A" it means "authentic" and if it wasnt slabbed and got an "A" it would mean "altered"...

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Posted By: leon

The A on an encased card means "Authentic". The A on a rejection slip means it was Altered and not holdered.....regards

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Posted By: JK

Joseph - that is incorrect. You are confusing rejection codes with the A label on a slabbed card. As noted by Leon, A stands for Authentic if on a slip and altered only when used as a rejection code. I would also note that a card could be holdered authentic and not have been altered in any way (such as by trimming, etc). I have seen at least one recent thread where a very poor conditioned card (a t206 johnson I believe) was holdered as authentic simply because according to the grading company (cant recall if it was sgc or psa) it was not nice enough to slab as a 1/10. Ive seen other cards that are missing a corner, etc. that have been graded A.

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Posted By: leon

On that Johnson card we aren't sure if there wasn't glue adhered to the very heavy crease....That might be an explanation for the A instead of a 1.....

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Posted By: JK

I recall that Leon, but in the absence of any actual evidence, Ive chosen to treat the glue theory as mere speculation

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Posted By: leon

The only reason I know about glue is I have had at least 2 cards in the last 6 months rejected for glue that I couldn't see. Unfortunately those weren't speculation .....take care

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

By "authentic" they mean, "not counterfeit."

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Posted By: Joe Pelaez

Hello Guys,
I want to thank each and every one of you for your answers.
Every answer had merit.
Please excuse a 76 year old that is still trying to learn.

As I understand it, whenever there's an "A" placed on an SGC slab, it represents a grade of some kind.
When I first saw it on this particular card.
I translated that to mean that it was SGC's way of saying that
the card is real, but there's something about it that prevents us from putting a number on it.

We know what the "A" in the SGC Rejection Codes stand for, but what does it stand for in the SGC Grading Scale???

Why the grade "A"?

Is it lower than the number TEN???


http://www.sgccard.com/grading_scale.htm

Thanks again.
Joe

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Posted By: JK

Joe,

A on the slab does not represent a grade - at least not the numerical type of grade we are generally accustomed to seeing. A, as noted, means the card is authentic (i.e. a real, non-reprint, non-counterfit, period card) but that it is not eligible for a numerical grade - generally due to being, hand cut, trimmed, etc. Since it is not eligible for a numerical grade, I would say an A falls below a 10 in sgc's scale or below a 1 in psa's scale.

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Posted By: Fred C

I've heard different stories for grading companies assigning the big A or AUTH on the label. I remember someone trying to convince me that the AUTH or A was put on the label because the submitter didn't want the card graded below a certain level... poohie on that... I'd take a low numerical grade over the AUTH or A designation.

IMO the A or AUTH is fine with me. I'll take the card with the A or AUTH at a reduced price if it presents well. Sure, it may be altered (trimmed, colored or whatever) but if it presents like a nicer card I don't care. Lets not kid ourselves, I'm sure we'd all agree that there are cards in 6 (or greater holders) that should be in A or AUTH holders. What about that T206 card of you know who that is graded an 8.

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Posted By: JK

I agree Fred - although hypothetically, A is available by request if you do not want a numerical grade, I've yet to meet anyone who actually made such a request. Given the general belief that a card graded A has had something done to it, you'd be crazy to make such a request even if you wanted to.

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Posted By: WP

Miscut cards or cards that don't meet the mini size rquirements can get the "A" correct?

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Posted By: Cobby33

Unfortunately, there is no uniform rule followed by PSA with regard to the most recent question...Sometimes you get it slabbed, sometimes you don't- whether you make a request or not.

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Posted By: Pcelli60

It means your an A-hole for buying an altered card. But the kind folks at SGC will magnanimously allow it to be place in one of there holders...

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Posted By: Bob

Count me in the minority but I'll take an exmt looking prewar card in an "A" holder any day over a thrashed and damaged SGC 10. I think the day is coming in the not too distant future when prewar cards with very slight trimming and great eye appeal are going to really escalate in value.

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Posted By: Cobby33

"It means your [sic] an A-hole for buying an altered card. But the kind folks at SGC will magnanimously allow it to be place [sic] in one of there [sic] holders..."

Not all of us are so skilled as to be able to determine that a card is altered by a scan on eBay or an Internet auction. Apparently, some are so skilled as to make this determination. The rest of us poor bastards can only aspire to such greatness.

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Posted By: Jason L

It is the first time I have seen anyone say it in print, but it has crept into my thoughts lately too.

I think it is very reasonable to assume that as prices continue to become more challenging for the average collector, the result will be "collection drift" down into lower grades and greater oversight of technical difficulties...I plan on doing just that for the various HOFer Cubbies on the wantlist.

Edited to add:
The next thought here is, of course: If trimmed cards become desirable as a collecting alternative, then we may begin to see a HUGE increase in the amount of trimming that takes place. Some may get through as unaltered, hopefully most of it will be holdered as A, but regardless, we may see a big increase in more attractive looking, altered tobacco cards...a bunch of what-ifs, but isn't that interesting?

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Posted By: Bob

Jason- I think there are already a whole slew of slightly trimmed great looking prewar cards in slabs. Unfortunately most of them are in PSA 8 and 9 holders
I really do believe that the slightly trimmed cards in Authentic holders will boom in the near future. You're right, not many are saying it openly, but that day is coming...
tbob

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Posted By: Joe Pelaez

TBOB - JASON. that's an interesting thought.

Don't think the graders aren't listening.

When I bid on this card, http://cgi.ebay.com/T210-Smith-Batting-Lynchburg-SGC-Authentic-Centered_W0QQitemZ300123626091QQihZ020QQcategoryZ5 7993QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

My thoughts were, I'm collecting a sub set, of a tough set, with the possibility of going after the whole set. (T210 640)

We're talking about a fierce case of insanity.
In my opinion, that's a set that should be started when you're in your twenties, or thirties. ... just to see how far you can go.

Anyway, getting back to the series two Smith batting.

I've recently started that set, and I needed that card.
We all agree, it's a beautiful card, BUT we all know that it received an "A" for an unknown reason.

If you look at the history of that auction, you'll see that david_slomer won the card fair and square.
To say that he chased the card, is an understatement.

If we read his "ME" - we get a better picture of Mr david_slomer.
I think that we can all agree, that david_slomer is a Happy Card Flipper.

BTW, I want to thank you guys for being straight forward with your take on the "A" question.

Back to the card.

Here we have a classic case of an off the wall set collector, and a Happy Card Flipper.

The nut, (me) took a shot on a high max based on the "A" factor.
Hoping of course to get it for less.

Let's face it, the card has been in some way shape or form, has been toyed with. ... otherwise they would not have given it an "A".

I notice where david_slomer has listed a couple of T210's for resale.

I'll be interested to see how he will list the T210 Smith batting series 2.

I don't mind losing to another card collector, but being chased by a Happy Card Flipper is insulting.

Thanks again for your take.
Joe