Photo altering on ebay - Positions?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I noticed a very expensive prewar card on ebay tonight that I used to own (a 5 figure card) and was shocked to see how much brighter the card's color is on the listing than it is in real life; a print defect has been removed as well. If I bought this card expecting to get the one in the listing I'd have a heart attack upon receipt (though it is a nice card--just not that ridiculously nice). What is with this BS of artificially improving the card's colors in an auction and giving it a nip and tuck? What is wrong with a high-end scan and then just slapping it on ebay? Is this fraud? Thoughts?

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

How about a link to the auction?

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D.

if the photo is retouched - that is just horrible fraud.

With all of the talk about card altering, I am surprised this wasn't brought up sooner. I've always worried about doctored scans... because it is so easy to do.


I will give one exception -
if a concern is brightness/contrast issues... I scanned an item a few times and was surprised to see the brightness difference in each scan. It was just the scanner somehow deciding to scan the same item differently.


But - you mentioned a print defect was removed in the scan... thats shows an overt effort to deceive IMO.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dan, I don't want to link it here cause I'll just kill the guy's auction and he is a big seller. But the card is so ridiculously bright on the listing that anyone who buys it would almost have to know it's been played with. When I sold it I used the same scan that I took from the auction house listing from which I purchased. I'm amazed at the balls of this guy.

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve Murray

I don't think you have to out the listing. It is obvious.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Steve, I just noticed that there is another ridiculously brightened card on ebay--same seller. So, he must have a scanner kissed by the gods...

[Archive]

Posted By: JK

Jeff,

would you email the link please. Thanks.

[Archive]

Posted By: mr. moses

again. Just like a prior thread about a creased card. If you brighten a card or enhance the colors for a particular reason you should just say so in your listing. If there are material defects like creases or whatever you should put it in your description. If you are cheating or lying to get more money you should put it in your description (kidding of course-stop sending me hate mail). Pretty simple. If you go to the pixel level and remove a spot or defect obviously there is an effort to deceive. I am NOT referencing the card referred to above as I haven't seen it - just a general statement.

[Archive]

Posted By: John

Jeff...wouldn't happen to be the T206holygrail collector would it? His scans are always so bumped on contrast and color they look almost psychedelic. That guy could sell a B&W card and his scan would be in color, its almost laughable how bright his scans are.

[Archive]

Posted By: brian

i've heard a lot of bad things about that seller, even though he has great feedback. heard that when he buys on ebay if the card doesnt grade high enough for him to make a good profit he demands a refund.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

I think it's outright fraud, especially if it is a photographic card and a weak photo is enhanced to look stronger. It is done deliberately and is therefore unethical.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ed Hans

I don't think that there's anything wrong with adjusting the brightness or contrast slightly for clarity. Editing out creases or marks is entirely another matter, of course.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bruce MacPherson

I think adjusting the brightness of a card is misleading and therefore unethical. However, removing a print defect is downright fraudulant. I too would like to know which seller this is so I can have this knowledge while bidding on his/her auctions.

[Archive]

Posted By: Martin Neal

Adjusting the brightness of a tobacco card can wash out creases (Imo). If the creases are not stated in the description, nothing could be more dishonest. If I think that a scan has been adjusted for brightness, I normally bid a lot less.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim Manos

If possible can you post a link to the ebay auction. Thanks in advance.. Jim Manos

edit Thanks for the e-mail I have never heard of this ebayer.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Evanov

Sometimes my scan looks nothing like the card......the colors are washed out and I have to do an "auto-fix" to restore the card to what it really looks like. Making the card look better than it is [brighter, deeper colors etc.] for selling purposes however is clearly fraud.

Frank

[Archive]

Posted By: boxingcardman

LOL.

I actually once bought a card that was from a B & W issue that was shown in color on the listing. I was certain that the seller had enhanced it to add color but since the seller was accepting paypal and was local, I did the deal. Turned out to be a black and white card, genuine, and a very nice addition to my set.

When my scanner enhances a card (happens sometimes) and I cannot bring it back down to a normal level, I post it in the listing. I just did that with a W517 that my scanner brightened.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob

I've been burned more than once by enhanced scans on ebay where the seller says in the fine print "couple of very light creases" and yet the scan looks beautiful. When I've received the card it looks like Hwy. 101 running through the card. That to me is mthe biggest scam going because the seller can always say, "hey look I was honest and said the card was creased." Bummer....

[Archive]

Posted By: RC

I am not in the market for a 5 figure card, but if a dealer is purposely editing cards I believe it is fair to let people on this board know who it is. I guess it is ok to just email people individually but everyone deserves to know.

RC

[Archive]

Posted By: Zinn

http://cgi.ebay.com/1941-PLAY-BALL-JOE-DiMAGGIO-PSA-8-RARE-HIGH-END_W0QQitemZ290110210017QQihZ019QQcategoryZ31718Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

As someone who owns both a digital camera and a scanner, I should point out that when the scan/photo of a card or piece of memorabilia often comes out at least slightly different that the item looks like in person-- in particular, lighter or darker, but often also color tints. If the item is for sale and the image is off enough, one probably should rephotograph/scan the item-- but rarely is the case that the image and the item are exactly alike ... Having pointed that out, I acknowledge that there are intentionally deceptive eBay images.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dylan

Thats the one i thought too. The color is overwhelming and bright. Tone it down a bit

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Evanov

After looking at that scan, I now have retinal damage. Are there any good attorneys on this board?

Frank

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

There are plenty of attoreys on this Board- don't know how many are actually good

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

The ratio of lawyers to optometrists is way out of wack on this board.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Zinn, you're getting very warm....

[Archive]

Posted By: Zinn

Then this has to be it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1933-GOUDEY-BABE-RUTH-144-REAL-PSA-8-EXT-RARE_W0QQitemZ290110685075QQihZ019QQcategoryZ31718 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Archive]

Posted By: Bruce MacPherson

The funny part is that I believe the cards look worse with all the brightness enhancement, especially the DiMaggio. I would think the seller is leaving money on the table by having those ridiculously bright scans.

[Archive]

Posted By: dennis

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-E101-HONUS-WAGNER-BATTING-REAL-PSA-NM-7-POP-1-1_W0QQitemZ290103873839QQihZ019QQcategoryZ31718QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
same seller different card...agree w/bruce. imo scans make the cards look like modern reprints.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

The auction for the subject card ends in two days; I'll post the real picture as soon as it is completed.

[Archive]

Posted By: Peter Spaeth

It's usually pretty obvious when a scan has been enhanced by altering the contrast or adjusting other settings.

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve Murray

We're waiting

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

The top image is from the Mile High online catalog and is already cleaned up a bit in my estimation. There is a print mark in the top border in the center that is more noticeable when viewing the card in person. The 3 Mile Harbor Ruth picture, below, is from the recent auction. You cannot discern any print mark in this picture.

[Archive]

Posted By: RC

I guess my question is why would they do it?
Perhaps to hide some imperfections I suppose.
I believe the orginal scan looks so much better than the altered item.

RC

[Archive]

Posted By: Jimmy

Sometimes a bad scanner can create bright looking images, I switched to mostly photos for graded cards, scanning ungraded does not seem to be a problem. If someone is doing the altering to make the card look better that is just plain wrong

Take Care Jimmy

[Archive]

Posted By: Peter Spaeth

Buy the label not the scan.