Hobby Retrospect

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Posted By: Jerry

This year marks my 20th year since I stumbled in to a local BB card shop and was taken back to my childhood and began my collecting rebirth of vintage material. The hobby has changed considerablly since 1987, when it seemed a new card shop was opening up everyday and there was multiple local shows every weekend.... Kids were scurring the isles wanting to know what their rookie cards were worth and people that didn't know or care about baseball were buying wax & vending cases of new material for investment. All cards were raw and the SCD was my main source of knowledge.

My question is, what do you think has changed the hobby the most in the last 10-20 yrs. The Internet, Ebay, Grading Companies, Auction Houses, etc.?

I don't follow the shiny stuff and have no idea where that aspect of the hobby is at.

What are your reflections how the hobby has changed over the last 10-20 years?

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Posted By: whitehse

as someone who has been in the hobby starting at the age of 9 in 1973 and a "weekend warrior" as we were called back then since 1982 I would say the biggest impact to the hobby was brought by ebay.
Who needs to leave their house for a 20 table show when you have the national show on your own home computer.

Ebay brought a selection no show can match, along with convenience and relative security. I mean what show can you shop in the middle of the night and wear only your underwear if you choose to.

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Posted By: Dave

So along with the ebay comment....has ebay been the driving force behind the soaring of pre-war card values? (I would assume so).....and will ebay be a driving force in the card values decreasing over the next few years due to flooding the market? (not with all series of course,but some?)

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Posted By: pat

the major advances in the hobby is tpg and ebay naturally. the internet opened up the doors for everyone who was less knowledgable to catch up with the rest. the sharing of information is easier. the internet and ebay renders brick and mortar stores and shows virtually obsolete. i think just a few very large shows per year are really successful. then you can throw in the major auction houses. they have an impact as well. more people know them and are confortable bidding. but they have recently become disenfranchised (sp?) with the % commission bumps. looks very greedy. in addition, when auction houses list sets both ways as complete sets and individual cards, and then selling to whichever is highest. that makes them look so bad to me. also (within ebay) as more and more people learn the sniping aspects on ebay it generate higher prices for the sellers. buyers no longer have to sit and watch each auction. vcp actually has an impact as well. as more and more people join that service, the end prices are less likely to be all over the board. there should be more consistancy. my concern with the latter though is if they get greedy. $9.95 per month is plenty fair all around. at that price they will have life long loyal customers. with all the shared information, it becomes easier to catch scammers as well. that is a great thing. twenty years ago, very few people knew the difference of a counterfeit mantle rc or a real one. i cant really comment on modern as i am not familiar with it. i think vintage will be stong for a long time to come. i also think sites such as this are a great tool. there is an incredible amount of knowledge on here. of course all this is just my opinion.
pat

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Posted By: Jason L

Whilst I do miss waltzing up and down the aisles of the larger card shows in nothing but my Cubs underpants and matching cap, I will add that as dealers began to remove the price tags from their cards on display, that only furthered the attraction to EBay, where the price was as plain as day for all to see...

Major drivers of change in the hobby:
-EBAY
-Third party grading companies
-Added liquidity from soaring stock and housing markets
-The changing patterns of modern card companies' supply to the market from 1987 to today

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Posted By: Dave

your last post might already be coming true. Has anyone noticed an increase in T206 auctions since Novemebr 2006 ? I have been casually monitoring the Ebay market for various card sets, and it kind of looks like everyone is trying to sell "T" cards now. I searched one sellers auctions after bidding on one card he had for sale and discovered he was only just selling that one card......he specialized in apparently selling used appliances and auto parts. I've also noticed a quick turnaround rate on some cards. these buyers get buy them on ebay or here in the BST, and then they put them back up for auction in 2-3 weeks at an increase in price. I think there is a flood of bad T206 cards on Ebay every week. It really is a dumping ground for alot of people crap. Here and there I find good cards or cards on my want lists, but just perusing the auctons today I noticed a lot of low grade T206's, and a lot of ungraded P-F cards.
Vintage is really all that has been selling consistently since the "insert card" craze began in the early 90's. I remember how this local dealer was buying all these 1992 Bowman boxes thinking he was going to really cash in on them in 10-15 years.....no such luck pilgrim. the T206 Hall of Famers I bought back in 1992 have increased in value 5-10 times.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out....thus we have a flood of T205, T206, T207...etc, and an increase in fraud and counterfieting by those unscrupulous persons trying to make a quick buck at the expense of vintage card collectors.
Ebay has definitely changed the collecting world though both positively and negatively. It has certainly opend up collecting to the world market.

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Posted By: Dave

I pretty much deal with buying the T206's in PSA 1-3's. (cant afford much higher). Even the low grades such as that have been going up in prices in the last few weeks....I just wonder how long that will last. Right now it seems alot is selling on ebay for higher dollars no matter what the card, could it be so many collectors have gotten tax returns back and have a few extra dollars?

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Posted By: Shane

I believe that is a two part question on who or what has changed our hobby. For the vintage card collector there is no doubt in my mind that grading companies have been the "x" factor. No matter what side of the fence you are on, the grading companies has changed the value on cards the most. We all have had the need for eBay or an auction house to sell or buy a graded card, but without PSA or SGC we would be in a world of hurt.
For the new collector I believe that eBay has been the enemy for the collector and the shop owners. The auction house and grading companies have really not been an issue for the new stuff. I do realize that BVG has a niche in this arena, but not a significant one to mention. Ebay has allowed the modern collector to pick up anything that he wants at anytime. Once the product becomes dead, (usually 5 months after the product is released) the price is at a fraction of the Beckett pricing.
Ebay has been a huge avenue to all collectors whether new or old.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

My kids brought me back into this great hobby in 1977 when we started opening new Topps wax packs.
I collected all kinds of sportscards as a kid from 1947 to the Fall of 1952. And, in 1977 I was fortunate
to recover all my original cards that were in my folks attic....BOWMANs, TOPPs, LEAFs, Bond Bread, etc.

In the late '70s and throughout all the 1980's the BB card hobby was unbelievable, it was a really great
time to experience its growth and the great camaraderie among most of the dealers and collectors.
Some of the finest friends I have....were made back then.

Now, in the past 10 years there have been two significant factors that have made a major impact on this
hobby....the Internet which has made available more cards then we could ever imagine back in the 1980's
and this is good.

And, the Grading phenomena which has its positive aspects; however, it has also resulted in several un-
intended negative aspects.

(1) It has driven the prices of cards beyond the means of many collectors.

(2) Set collectors have become a "vanishing breed", unable to deal with the high $$$$ for star cards.

(3) Rather than reducing card altering, it has increased it, by scammers using higher-tech methods.

(4) Finally, and most unfortunately, it has given rise to a new "class" of collectors who find it necessary
to denigrate collectors of non-graded cards. In a few cases it has become a "plastic cult" of intolerance,
and this does not bode well for the future of this hobby.

In order to complete my sets, I collect both Graded and Non-Graded cards, I am not particular....I guess
that makes me a "hybrid collector"....hey, I've been called worst.

TED Z

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Posted By: barrysloate

Ted's points are well articulated and I share his concern that grading, particularly for high grade cards that fall in that registry area, has priced most collectors out of the hobby. However, grading is likewise the single most important factor that has fueled the growth of the hobby in the last decade. Without slabbing, a great number of people who have entered the hobby in a serious way wouldn't have lasted more than a short time. After getting burned on altered material, they would have left in droves.

The internet of course is the other major factor; instead of the occasional weekend show, you now have an even bigger show 365 days a year.

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Posted By: pat

jason has an excellent point i missed initially---Added liquidity from soaring stock and housing markets. thats absolutely true.

ted has great points as well.