Time to fess up: Who bought the Zeenut Claxton on ebay early?

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Posted By: Bob

I placed an initial bid as did 2 other folks but suddenly it disappeared. I think the seller left bucos of change on the table because it is obvious he had no idea what he had.

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Posted By: Zach Rice

I was the high bidder when the item was pulled. I wrote the seller telling him the value of the card was likely much greater than his book value estimate and even included a link to a network54 thread where the Claxton Zeenut was discussed. He never responded and the card was pulled. Oh well.

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Posted By: Bob

Guess this answers the question:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1916-ZeeNut-James-Claxton-RARE-L-K_W0QQitemZ120074781563QQihZ002QQcategoryZ86841QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: paulstratton

It had a buy it now of $1,000.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Bob- I'm missing something. If the card sold too cheaply, and it had a BIN, why did you place a bid when you could have just bought it? Did something change to the format along the way?

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Posted By: Max Weder

Barry

The seller shut down the first auction with the bids, then relisted it with a BIN.

Max

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Posted By: john/z28jd

This wouldnt happen if we had our own auction on the board

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Anyone want to take a guess on the value of that card. Is $1,000 about right?

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Posted By: Max Weder

Way too low Dan, I think.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Well...I guess congratualations are in order for Fred. I knew the Claxton was a special card, but in that condition I would have guessed the price was right. I don't follow the Zeenuts.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I was the buyer of the Claxton card last night.

It's not like I offered $100 for the card and ripped off the seller. That's $1K and the card is pretty trashed.

I placed the first bid on the initial auction and I immediately contacted the seller when I saw the card for auction. At the time the seller was putting cards up for auction. I figured the card was real because the seller also had other period PCL cards for sale.

The cards were purchased when a card shop closed down.

Bottom line, the auction was up, I put a bid on the card and then contacted the seller. The seller agreed to $1K and closed down the auction after there were a total of three bids (high bid was $27 at the time the auction was ended). Seller then put up the card with a $1K bin as the agreed upon price.

I've already had a few people contacting me about the card. I wasn't planning on selling it. It's a beater card that has historical significance. I thought it would go well with my other Zeenuts.

Thanks for all the well wishes and to those that are a little unhappy I don't know what to say.

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Posted By: Paul

When the seller relists a card for you with an agreed-upon BIN, isn't there always a risk that someone else will grab the card first?

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Yes Paul, there is always that risk - it would have been unfortunate if someone else picked it off. At that point in time there'd be nothing I could do about it. I wish everyone would look at the card in the auction item description and they can see the condition of the card. It's not exactly going to get a PSA5 grade. I'm thinking an SGC10 or SGC-AUTH label is the best that it will do.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Hey Fred that's the way the game is played now. You got a nice card at I guess a good price. How many I wonder have already tried to get that guy to end the Just So auction??? I know that I've tried to get a few auctions ended here lately...unsuccesfully, but as they say when in Rome......

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Posted By: ErlandStevens

Bob

The last time we had one of these threads, I scolded you for trying to get a listing closed down. I guess I should apologize. I still don't like it, but it seems to now be SOP on eBay. I wonder which is a bigger money loser for eBay - bogus Second Chance offers or lots that get closed down early.

Erland

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Posted By: Andy Baran

What Just So Auction?

Never mind. Found it.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Damn!!! That Just So card was outed twice in one week.

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

For the newcomers and those of us that only collect catcher PCL items, what is the reason for this being a desirable card?

Thanks,


Patrick

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Patrick,

Here's the information from Wikipedia:

Jimmy Claxton (born December 14, 1892 in Wellington, British Columbia, Canada) was a black baseball pitcher.

On May 28 1916, Claxton temporarily broke the professional baseball color line when he played one game for the Oakland Oaks of the Pacific Coast League. Claxton was introduced to the team owner by a part-Indian friend as a fellow member of an Oklahoma tribe. A candy company--the Zeenut candy company--quickly produced a baseball card for Claxton. Within a week, a friend of Claxton revealed that he had both African American and Native American ancestors, and was promptly fired. It would be nearly thirty more years before another black man played organized white baseball.


[edit] Source
Baseball by Ken Burns; New York: Alfred Knopf, 1994


The bottom line is that he has a part in baseball history and therefore people like the card.

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Posted By: dennis

would anybody looking at this thread have sniped higher than the BIN $1000.00? be honest

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Posted By: warshawlaw

As noted, the card is beat.

As far as the dealings go, I am unclear as to whether anyone complaining about the deal made a four figure offer to the seller directly--did that happen?

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Posted By: Bob

I gave Fred my congratulations for being the new owner of the card. My inital post merely mentioned that I didn't know what happened to it. I ran a card search and found that it was relisted with a BIN after an offer was made on the card and the auction closed.
I had wondered if someone had merely offered the seller $100 or so for the card. Although the card is almost unique, in that condition the price seems about right and I have no problems with its sale. I certainly would have not gone that high and Fred is a good guy and I am glad the card is with him now.
I can only hope that the two self-appointed buttinskys who complained to the seller about the transaction I had a while back didn't repeat their actions with this seller. I am willing to bet they didn't.
I have gone on record as saying that I don't like the procedure of ending an auction early as a bidder and have only done it three times in ten (10) years on ebay and twice cowardly onlookers complained and the contracts of sale were voided and the cards relisted. (On one, I ended up buying the very same card in Barry Sloate's auction many months later for the same price I offered originally).
I doubt that I would do it again but in all honesty if there were a card which I desperately needed and which I knew hadn't been offered before and likely would not be offered again, I would probably do the same thing as Fred. Judging from all the supportive emails I received last time, there are a lot of people here who would also.

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Posted By: Zeenut

I would have bid $1500 for the Claxton. No doubt.

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Posted By: steve f

I've learned that if you keep your eyes open, this vintage stuff continues to spill onto the marketplace at a decent clip. Many older collectors and antique folk are still unexposed or wary of the net. Fred,Can you post a scan when it arrives? Congrats

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Posted By: Paul

Is it known whether the Claxton card is actually scarcer than the others in the set, or just more popular? Given his extremely short career in the PCL, it seems likely that the card may have been produced only for a very short period of time.

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Posted By: Max Weder

Paul

Here is an article written on Jimmy Claxton . As the author notes, it was very fortuitous that Claxton had his photo taken at all, given his one appearance in the PCL

http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/article_01933.shtml

Max

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

I too would have bid higher on the Claxton.
-Rhett Yeakley

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Posted By: fkw

I would have bid higher that $1K, and I never win those good cards (unless they are in wrong category)

How often do you see a 1916 Zeenut? Not too often. And then you have a 1 in 142 chance it is a Claxton. So that explains how often they show up on eBay. Ive seen 2 now in 8 years.

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Posted By: Bob

I have a 1916 Zeenut on ebay now, in low (better than Claxton though) condition. It's is going for $3.99 at the present time with one day to go.

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Posted By: Max Weder

Yes, Bob, but the player in your auction wasn't born in Wellington, British Columbia

Max

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Posted By: Bob

LOL, true Max, very true

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Posted By: Brian

I would have bid more.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I wanted to bring closure to this thread. I have included a scan of the card that accurately shows the condition issues that this card really has. I stand by my offer to the seller as a fair offer. This card is pretty beat, but it's still a 16Z Claxton.

The seller showed a lot of honesty and integrity because they agreed upon a price and followed through with the sale even though (larger) offers were being made after the ebay sale was completed. Perhaps some people may not understand that the acceptance of the terms for sale and purchase creates a contract when both parties agree and the deal is recorded on ebay. I guess some people just don't care though. I'm pretty sure that when everyone sees the scan below that they'll agree that the card is in P condition (maybe P-F on a good day) at best. The last Claxton I can recall seeing in auction sold for around $7200 but it was in GAI3 condition. I've included a scan of that card also below the card that I purchased.








I had a a lot of correspondance with a lot of other collectors after this thread was started. Most of it seemed positive. I received a few very nice offers for the card after the ebay deal was made. Now that people are getting a better look at the card I'm guessing that the people that made the offers are now happy that I didn't take them up on the proposed deals. I've been wanting this card for a while now. Like a lot of us, I've procrastinated on getting certain cards over the years because we figured that the cards will always resurface and be available. After watching the exponential price run up on this card I figured I'd better take a shot at this one, even though it's as beat as it is. I bet there are a lot of you out there that have wanted that Goudey Lajoie for a long time. That card was available for under a grand for a long time, we all could have gotten it but we all figured it'd always be there... well, it's still there but it just doesn't show itself very much anymore.

This Claxton card reminds me of that SGC10 D304 Cobb that we all see on the 10 and 20 cent dump your chump days on ebay. Is that idiot ever going to sell that card?

I've heard people use the term RARE or SCARCE when they make referece to this card. Does anyone want to take a guess at "about" how many of these cards are out there? I think people will be surprised at the estimated population of this card. In any case, I don't think it's rare. People desire the card because of the dark history behind the demise of Claxton from organized baseball in 1916. This card is desireable for historic reasons, not for reasons of rarity. Even if you bring the supply/demand factor into the equation there are many examples of this card out there, it's just waiting for one to become availble for sale.

Thanks to those that have corresponded with me about the card. For the mean time, I think I'll send it in to SGC for encapsulation so that the card will be protected. I don't think we'll see it back on ebay anytime soon.

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Posted By: Steve f

It's a real treasure. Congrats Fred... Don't leave him soak too long now