The most incredible collection ever

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Posted By: scott hassel / Mr.Ginter

Like many busy business people I do most of my really important reading ( hobby stuff ) in that private room where my wife and kids can't interrupt me. I won't bother to elaborate just where that room is as you can just use your imagination. Its always the same. I pick up one of my 200 or so old auction catalogs and begin thumbing through the pages. For some of the newbie vintage baseball collectors here I highly recommend getting yourself a copy of Sotherby's March 23 , 1991 auction catalogue...yes the Copeland Collection. I started collecting vintage material in 1993 and I hadn't had the good fortune to eye ball this collection in person. If you think the Halper Collection was incredible this one will " blow your doors off ". I'm amazed , yes amazed at the depth of the James Copeland collection. When you view a page and think it can't get any better you turn to the next page and your heart skips a beat...and guess who was the expert consultant on that auction. None other than Mr.Bill Mastro. In any event , do yourself a favor and find a copy anyway you can. You' won't be sorry. Happy collecting and a Happy and Healthy New Year to you all.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Keep in mind that in the years Copeland assembled the collection, roughly 1988-91, vintage cards weren't really that expensive and much of the market was flat. He actually sold it at a time when things were in the doldrums. If you had that collection today..well, that's another story entirely.

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Posted By: scott hassel

Barry , I highly respect you as an expert and member of this board but how in the world can you say - "1988-91, vintage cards weren't really that expensive ". Take a look for yourself at the values that were placed on each lot. In 1991 dollars the prices would rival todays.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I was bidding on a good deal of the 19th century material at the sale and there was not a lot of excitement in that area. Perhaps some of the rarer 20th century cards had a better track record. Now that you brought it up it has been many years since I went through that catalog. Maybe it would be fun to check those prices out a little more closely. I do remember his cards were in exceptional condition.

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

To the extent that the measure of a collection is how great its baseball cards are, then Copeland's would certainly rank up there.

Where Halper blows him away is in memorabilia, and if you were to take that into account in measuring a collection, Copeland's wasn't close to being in the same league as Halper's. As far as baseball cards were concerned, Halper was well represented in that area as well, though he put much less emphasis on condition than Copeland.

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Posted By: Dylan

So all being said what three of four collectors amassed the most impressive baseball card collections(at any given point)?

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Posted By: scott hassel

Are you saying that Barry's collection had the depth of 19th / early 20th century cards as the Copeland collection? Frankly I don't see that.

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Posted By: mvsnyc

halper vs. copeland?

copeland was very heavy in cards (rare & high condition)...

halper was very heavy in memorabilia (jerseys, bats, etc.)...he also had many cards

winner? halper hands down...look thru his sotheby's catalogs...jaw-dropping!

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Posted By: scott hassel

I do/did and with no disrespect to the Halper collection if someone came to me and said you can own one Vs the other. The Copeland collection would be sitting in my safe deposit box. I like paper
instead objects. As they say " to each his own ".

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Posted By: barrysloate

A good deal of Halper's cards were sold before his auction took place. Corey was referring to Halper's 19th century memorabilia- photography, documents, scorecards and books, color lithography, and overall emphasis on the game's early history. Copeland had nothing like that, but his 19th century cards were clearly superior.

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Posted By: steve f

Halpers' signed vintage stuff was mind boggling. Unlike acquirable base ball cards, truly unique gems. I admire that Ruth and the 'Called-shot' photog's piece in particular.

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Posted By: bruce dorskind

Gentleman

Before you limit your discussion of "most incredible collection ever,"
we suggest that you consider that "ever" is a very, very long time.

Long before Jim Copeland knew what a baseball card was or
Barry Halper obtained his first Yankke autograph, there were a select
cadre of very serious and intellectually curious gentlemen who built, what
we consider, truly world class collections.

At the very top of our list would be the wonderful collection
of World Tobacco cards built by the late Sir Edward Wharton-Tigar.

Sir Edward, the heir to a South African mining fortune, was the
author of the five volume World Tobacco Index.

Over a 40 year period, beginning in the 1930's, he traveled the
world and corresponded with collectors such as Charles Bray,
Jefferson Burdick ( American Card Catalog) and Goodwin Goldfaden.

We were fortunate enough to spend a number of evenings with
Sir Edward and his lovely wife both in our New York residence
and his London town house.

His flat had a entire floor dedicated to rare baseball tobacco cards.
Said collection included more than 4000 Old Judges, 200 Kalamazoo
Bats, 6 Kalazmazzo Bat Cabinets , 400 Ramlys and 5 Just So Chewing
Tobacco... and then there were ten thousand 20th century US
tobacco cards (including two Wagners)

Whilst Sir Edward traded regularly with a select few prominent collectors,
the vast majority of his holdings were donated to the British Museum.

His contribution to the hobby as well as his incredible generosity will
forever be etched in our memory and in hobby lore. His was certainly
amongst the greatest collections ever.

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: warshawlaw

His collection, the little I saw of it, looked very impressive. Of course, we will never know since they keep it locked down like the Ark at the end of Raiders.

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Posted By: Jeff O

Bruce is right about Wharton-Tiger, who is unquestionably the most famous tobacco card collector ever in England. If you want to get an understanding of what he contributed to the hobby, spend the money and pick up a five volume set of The World Index - it makes the ACC look like a comic book (and I love the ACC!).

When I was in England in 2001 I went to the British Museum and they had a small sampling of his collection on display... and I was very surprised to see a T206 Wagner staring at me out of one of the cases. Never figured I'd have to travel to London to see on in person.

Jeff

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Posted By: T E

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread. This is why I gravitate to this board (thanks, Leon)-
T E McMorrow
PS-I must admit that in my private room I sometimes read the Racing Form, or as I call it, "The thinking man's paper."

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

This thread shoud be about the most impressive collection ever offered for public sale. I would guess it would be:

1: Halper
2: Copeland
3: Jim Montgomery
4: Don Steinbach
5???

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

I would put Mark Rucker as no. 3. And from the criteria of 19th century memorabilia only, he would be no. 1.