B/S/T Hypothetical Question

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Posted By: Steve M.

I post a card for sale on the B/S/T. I post a scan of the front and described the back with particularity, i.e. clean, no creases, no paper loss, etc.

I get an email requesting a scan of the back. I provide a scan.

I then get an email from someone who commits to buy the card. No conditions attached.

What, if any, is my obligation to the first emailer?

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Posted By: Josh Adams

Steve,

I would contact the first emailer, tell him there is a second guy waiting, and give the first guy a fixed amount of time to respond. Perhaps by the end of the day, or something along those lines? Then, I would tell the second emailer about the situation, and let him know as soon as possible.



Go Go White Sox
2005 World Series Champions!

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Posted By: Mike Ernst

IMHO--absolutely no obligation whatsoever. Rquest for a scan is an inquiry, not commitment. If first person says "send me a scan, and if back is as clean as front, I will definitely take it" that's a different issue.

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Posted By: Cat

Nothing.

How were you to know he wasn't simply going to counter-offer or pass altogether.

Someone came along and said: "I'll take it" and that's who gets it.

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Posted By: cmoking

I don't think you have any obligations to the first emailer, but I do think the first emailer will have a problem with you if he emails you back wanting the card (after seeing the scan) and you tell him it is sold. He's going to think: WTF, you didn't know I was interested in the card when I asked for a scan?

I'd tell the second emailer that he's second and I'd get back to him ASAP. Then I'd email the first emailer and say, you gotta give me an answer soon please...and set a deadline.

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Posted By: leon

Generally speaking the first person to put their money where their mouth is should get it. That's the way it works at shows. Out of courtesy I would contact the first person and say you need an answer now. This is only my opinion and I won't dictate how anyone does it. A scan requested is not a sale though...Someone saying "I will take it", or "I will take it pending a scan" is committing to buy it...Treat folks the way you want to be treated and it becomes an easier decision.....best regards

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I agree with Mike and Cat.

First guy created the dilema by not asking if you'd hold the card. Without asking for a hold or saying he'd buy if back looks ok, he's owed nothing. Leon is right, that the first guy may be frustrated with what's happened. I guess you could ask him if he wants you to hold it.

Realistically, if you're wanting to sell, and a buyer appears ready to buy, he's the man! Not someone who was thinking about it...

A good question, though, and something for BST folks to have in mind when they do business there.


Frank.

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Posted By: Joe D.

I give the first person a shot to buy it.... and give them until tomorrow morning (specific time) to let you know either way.

Then I let the other person know that you have given the first in line one day to either buy or pass on the card.


I've had a bunch of BST experiences just like yours... and that is how I handle them.

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Posted By: Steve M.

Some time ago with my listings on the B/S/T I formulated a list of Rules. I think use of these Rules could alleviate any problems of this nature:

"1. Emails have priority over posts;
2. Emails have priority in the order received;
3. An email stating an intent to purchase without conditions will take precedence over an prior email requesting a scan or attaching some other condition precedent to a commitment to purchase;
4. I am pleased to provide scans but can only do so between 5:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. CST during the week as I still have to work to support this addiction. Scans most anytime over the weekends;
5. If I provide a scan I expect a response, one way or the other. A simple "thanks, but I'll pass" would be fine. I can handle rejection very well. Violations of this rule may result in being black-listed from future scans;
6. Prices are for payment by check or money order and include shipping;
7. Payment by PayPal add 3% to the price;
8. Insurance is extra and is at the buyer’s expense;
9. Personal checks must clear before shipping though if you have dealt with me before and/or are a recognizable VIP member of the board I’ll ship on the next business day;
10. No returns on graded cards. All others have a seven (7) day full refund return privilege;
11. The fixed price stated for an item does not necessarily equal "trade" value."

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Posted By: barrysloate

If you turn down the person who commits to buy it, and then the fellow who asks for the scan passes, you may lose a sale. You have no obligation to the first inquiry but it's probably courteous to let him know the situation and see if he is willing to take the card sight unseen. Just make it clear to the second caller that you have an obligation to contact the other first. It's complicated and in a perfect world the first buyer would say "I need the card, I like the price, I'll take it, scan isn't necessary."

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Posted By: Jason L

covers alot, and everyone knows where they stand if they would like to do business with you...provided they READ it!

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Posted By: Rich Klein

Is a pay pal surcharge.

I know that Credit Card companies take a very dim view of anyone charging me for usage than for Cash. Businesses can get in a lot of trouble for doing that.

While I don't have pay pal, if I had to pay a premium for that; unless that is legal under Pay Pal rules, I'd be furious and would complain to Pay Pal immediately

Rich

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Posted By: Joe D.

If the listing itself is not ironclad....

any question would be a 'condition' -- setting up an unfair situation for potential buyers.


I think by posting a response on the BST - it should be implied that the responder has an intent to purchase (unless stated otherwise).

So if someone is first in line and asks a question or requests a scan... I don't believe that should exclude that person from keeping a certain spot in line... It might very well be an indication of holes in the listing.

For instance, I just purchased a card on BST. My initial response requested a scan of the front and back. Should I lose this card to someone who is willing to buy it sight unseen?


In my opinion, the important protection for the seller and the 'next' people in line is a defined time frame. 24-hours from initial correspondence should be plenty of time to move to the next person in line.

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Posted By: David Vargha

I've had similar situations happen several times. Since we aren't face to face (thus the scan request) then the rules applied are a bit different than what goes down at a show IMO. I notify the second person that he is behind the first inquiry and I will inform him ASAP as to the status of the card. I then contact the first inquiry, notifying him of the second inquiry and give him 3-4 hours to come to a decision. I've never had any problems doing it that way. Communication is the key and I always let people know if they are second or third in line if and when the card sells. As Leon said, treat others how you would want to be treated.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Steve M.

Couple of comments to the comments:

I have listed the card for $100. If you paypal me, which is more of a convenience to you, I only get $97.

While ebay has rules against paypal surcharges private transactions such as those on the B/S/T are not governed by such rules.

24 hours seems like an inordinate amount of time for someone to make up their mind. Ever hear of "buyer's remorse"? In the time it takes for the "first" guy to decide the second could easily be gone.

OK, that was three comments.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

A buyer ALWAYS moves ahead of any lookers who are in line. You owed the guy nothing other than a courteous explanation.

Frank.

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Steve,

Ethics: I don't think you owe anything to the first emailer, except maybe an email thanking him for his interest in the card and telling him that it has been sold. His inquiry was not a commitment. By asking for a scan, he did not obligate himself to you in any way (in fact, he imposed a minor burden on you). Why, then, should you feel morally bound to him?

Legal: Maybe you or a contracts lawyer who lurks around here can correct me on this point, but I think your post on B/S/T was not an offer to sell but an invitation to deal (since there was no identified offeree). The first emailer's request for a scan was not an offer either (since he did not express unequivocally that he wanted the card). The second emailer made you an offer which you could choose to either accept or decline.

Scot

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Posted By: Joe D.

24 hours may be too long to give someone -
I guess it depends on the person (do you know the person?) or the item itself....

The number of hours is up to you - but I do think an timed deadline is better than just going to the next person.

Maybe an additional rule that states:
-- All inquiries will be responded to via email. You may lose your spot in line, and the item might be offered to another person - if I do not receive a response back within (X) hours.

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Posted By: Joann

I always put a statement in any of my BST posts that says FCFS based on committment to purchase, not on requests for scans or info. So I would sell it to the second guy - to me anyone asking a question or for info should know from the post that the card might get sold while they are thinking, looking, or even waiting for a response. It keeps it simple and clear to do it that way as long as the post makes it clear that a request for info or scan does not cement a spot in line.

As to PayPal, I have a listing on ebay right now where I added a line stating that because of PayPal's buyer protection policies (that essentially make the seller responsible for the entire shipping process) shipping insurance is mandatory if the buyer uses PayPal. I think that's okay - it's not adding a fee to offset the PP fees. It's requiring that the buyer not put me in a position of personally insuring the shipping at no cost to him. I won't do it for cards that won't sell for much, but if I think it's going to get above $50 or so, that's going to be a standard condition in my future auctions.

Joann

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

How long did it take you to send the scan of the back after it was requested?

After you e-mailed the back of the card, how lond did it take the buyer to reply back to you?

When did you notify the buyer that the card was involved in another deal?

I think these kind of deals is like asking a baseball manger when is a good time to send a runner from first base... It's all based on situations. Dealing on postcard issues it is very common to show the back since there is writing on them. I have seen many clean issues as well as nasty ones.

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Posted By: Steve M.

The "hypothetical" clearly states that the back was described as clean. Given the experience of the "hypothetical" poster that fact may reasonably have been considered by the emailer in determining whether he/she wanted to commit to the card. As one respondent to this post suggested the proper way, if you really want an item, to show your interest, is to email for a scan with a statement to the effect "Please send me a scan. If the scan is as you have represented in your post I will buy the card". Not too hard.

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

"Not to hard" Nice agressive statement there Steve. Again postcards that have writing on them may be "clean" or "ugly".

I would think most postcard collectors would want to see the back.. I do not know how many poeple would actually go to the trouble saying all that to you. Since they are asking for a scan you should know they are interested. I'm sure being more detail is better though.

Was it a repeat customer you were dealing with or a stranger?
By answering my 3 earlier questions it should make more sence? If you told the buyer upfront about it, than no problem...

How was "your" conmunication with the buyer?

Can you charge a customer more if they pay you through paypal or credit card.. I think the answer is NO. You can not charge for fees... However you can just sell it for more money to begin with and take some off if they pay cash...

Playing any cards tonight?

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Posted By: Steve M.

I have cut and am ready to paste all of the emails between the poster and the first emailer. Do you really want me to do that? Get over it.

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

You are avoiding the three questions? How come? It might help people make up how it should have played out? I'm over whatever you think I'm not.. I'm just staying on your topic here about the "hypothetical question"

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Posted By: Jerry Spillman

Adding pictures of both the front and back of a card to the post originally is more efficient. Avoids confusion and misunderstandings.

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

Hopfully both of these threads will just die down together... Maybe someone can start a "how To" thread on making money without problems in the B/S/T.