Any 1920's set collectors out there?

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Posted By: Scot

It sometimes, seems like a bunch of old hippies trying to rehash (or keep) a buzz with all the colors.

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Posted By: Steve M.

I'm not really familiar with this issue but every one I've seen has the rounded corners. Is that the way they were issued?

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Posted By: Scot York

American Caramels were issued with sharp corners. This card was just well loved.

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Posted By: JK

I dont collect them exclusively, but I love the e121s and w575s (and other similar sets).

Steve, here's a couple with sharp corners for you:

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Posted By: Ken McMillan

I do not specifically collect these cards, but I collect one player from this group of cards. All the cards have sharp corners from all the related series. There are E121 series of 120, e121 series of 80, w501, koester bread (D383), and w575-1 cards. they all use the same picture on the fronts and the backs vary. The card I collect is Elmer Miller and I have examples of all the card varieties except the Koester Bread card. I have one that PSA called a Koester bread and SCG calls a W575-1. Does anyone have an actual Koester Bread of Elmer Miller (1921 Koester Bread) card that they could post a scan of. The front of what PSA called Koester bread and SCG called W575-1 is different and I have another card that SCG called W575-1 that is different than the last submission. a scan could clear up the confusion.

Thanks,
Ken

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Posted By: Brad

I've always liked collecting the 1923 Maple Crispette set, but I'm starting to focus my attention on e103, e90-2 and D322's.


http://s79.photobucket.com/albums/j136/MapleCrispetteV117

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Posted By: fkw

The only difference between the Koester Bread and W575-1 will be the Koester should say "Outf." and the W575-1 should say "C.F."

I dont have the cards or pictures, but from how the set is design this should be true.

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

I collect 1921 Exhibits, some of the best B/W photos were used for the set...

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Posted By: Ken McMillan

Hi FKW,

I have seen the outf designation for outfielder cards before in my reading. What I find i intersting is that the W575-1 cards must have 2 different varieties of cards according to SCG. I have 3 blank backed cards two of which have the C. F. designation, and one of which has O. F. for the position. SCG has said that all 3 are 1922 W575-1 cards. At one time, one of the cards that is now called a W575 was labeled a Koester bread by PSA. SCG obviouly didn't agree with PSA. That is why the confusion. Thanks for your imput.

Ken

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Posted By: fkw

The blank back "O.F." card should be a W501. W501's are blank back reproductions of E121-120 cards and from what my checklists say the E121-120 and W501 cards should have a "O.F.". And the E121-80 and W575-1 should have the "C.F.", and the Koesters "Outf."

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Posted By: fkw

The W501's will have a grainier photo, and some of the captions are different from the W575-1 cards. Some but not all W501's have the numbers on top border. Either these numbers were cut off or never existed. I have a Frisch (2B) that I know is a W501 (W575-1 say 3B), but the top border is nice and large without the numbers usually associatied with W501's.

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Frank et al,
The W575-1, W501, Koesters Question is one of the most misunderstood things in the entire hobby. First off, the W575-1's--There are actually 2 different sets that people are calling W575-1, just as Frank stated--there are cards that are essentially blank backed E121 cards, which have the same quality printing as E121 and on the same quality paper, this group includes within it the Henry Johnson and Keating Candy Co. cards, as they are simply W575-1's with a stamp applied to the back. Then, there is a second set which people call W575-1 (which would be better called W501 type II), which was produced with very grainy photos, and on really cheap paper (actually the same paper as W501)--one can really see the difference very well when comparing the two. Those that are in the second category share their entire checklist with the W501 set. While I don't simply think the second types are W501's without number and G-4-22, they were a different set--they just shouldn't be categorized with the W575-1's that are blank back E121. Also, not all W575-1's (type 1's) have the specific outfield position, I have seen those with O.F. on the front, I recently had a Johnny Mostil with O.F. designation that was a W575-1 (type 1-blank back E121).

The Koesters set is hard to understand. There was recently a newspaper ad that advertised 40 different cards in the set, yet there are more than that in the books listed, I have never seen the album (don't know how many spaces there are). Then the Un-cut sheet that Lipset had only had 35 players on it (19 yanks, 16 giants), which also didn't have all outfielders listed as Outf. I still believe until someone can prove otherwise that there are players included in the Koesters set that were not issued as W575-1's but unless you have a player like that or who had their position designated differently--there is no way to tell whether you have a W575-1 or a Koesters. An example would be with a player such as Fred Toney (P.-Giants), if you have a card of him it would be impossible to tell whether a W575-1 or a Koesters. However, if you had Jesse Burkett or Alex Ferguson than I think you probbably have a Koesters.
-Rhett

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Posted By: fkw

Thanks Rhett,

Makes a little more sense now.

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

I just threw together a scan of 3 different Walter Holke (portraits), All 3 have blank backs, and they are in order from left-right W575-1 (Type I- E121 quality), W501, and W575-1 (Type II- W501 quality (personally prefer the W501-Type II due to shared 120 card checklist).



-Rhett

More can be seen on my website, under the "Caramel" section, however photo size will be less and grainy-ness of photo sometimes hard to appreciate.
http://www.starsofthediamond.com/caramel.html

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Posted By: Anonymous

Please help...these are my Uncle Elmer Miller's W cards....all are blank backed...any thoughts on true W designation? Thanks, Ken

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Posted By: fkw

The Miller one on the top right is like the 3rd Holke in Rhetts scans above. It is really not cataloged (yet).
Like Rhett described, it is similar to the W501 in grainy photo quality and lower quality card stock, but lacks the "G-4-22" at top like a normal W501. Most collectors would call it a W575-1, but it is actually more closely related to a W501. Rhett calls it a W575-1-B on his site (see his link above).

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Posted By: fkw

Rhett,
Of the 3 sets (W575-1-A, W575-1-B, W501), what set is the scarcest and roughly how much scarcer?

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

You betcha.

I'm currently building a W502 set (I'm about a third of the way there), and I also collect E121s with Henry Johnson backs. I think they're E121s with blank backs, not W575-1s.

Anybody that's looking to part with either, I'm all ears!

-Al

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Posted By: Paul

Rhett,

Why do so many of the W501s have a rough cut at the top and bottom, almost like they were perforated? One of the W575-1s of Miller in this thread also has that same rough cut.

Paul

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Posted By: Ken McMillan

Thanks to all on solving the Miller mystery. The W575-1 B explanation makes the most sense of all explanations I have heard. Does anyone have any idea when this subset would ever be catalogues and how did this variation occur? Thanks again for the help.

Ken

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Posted By: fkw

Paul, To me it almost looks like they might have came out of a machine in a single vertical strip and torn off one at a time and given to the kids (sort of like a roll of scotch tap). Maybe at a candy store or something? I have seen quite a few W501, W575-1-B, and W573 cards with the rough slightly angle cuts of the top and or bottom edges. The stock on all 3 sets is thin enough that they could have originally been in a roll of some kind.

I have a couple uncut strips of 10 (vertical) cards of W573's right now, and I had a W573 strip a few years back that was shipped to me rolled up just like I described and it seems to have been stored that way for a while as it didnt want to lay flat at all. You never know.

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Posted By: Scot

This is my favorite era in baseball cards. I really like the actual photos. You can imagine being there with the player. Thanks for the great scans!!

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Posted By: David Smith

Hello,

Pictured are my 11 York Caramel Type 1 cards from 1927. These, along with my 16 Star Player Candy cards from 1928, would be the sets I would try to complete.

Unfortunately, I do not have the money at this time to add to either set. Also, how often do ANY Star Player Candy cards come up for sale???

David

P.S. In case you can't read the names, they are Pennock, O'Farrel, Traynor, Mays, Kelly, Heilmann, Smith, Altrock, Frisch, Sisler, and Shawkey.

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Posted By: Scot York

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