Slightly OT - PSA grading

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Posted By: Rich W.

Has this happened to anyone else? I submitted 6 cards, among others, to PSA last year. All cards were from a vending box. The 6 cards came back as 4 PSA 6's and 2 PSA 5's. Along with this PSA order were a number of cards that came back as PSA 8's also. I could never figure out what was wrong with them to warrant such low grades so I just recently re-submitted them after cracking them open. I got 4 PSA 8's and 2 PSA 9's out of the 6 cards. Not one of them came back as flawed.

How does this happen?? These cards came back 2 and 3 grades higher than the original grades. Bad day for the grader?? It should not be this much of a crapshoot.

Rich W.

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Posted By: JudgeDred2

Rich,

Please tell me you scanned the cards in both the PSA5/6 holders and PSA8/9 holders. It would be nice to see this contrast.

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Posted By: David Vargha

My guess is that the cards had almost imperceptible surface wrinkles that were missed the second time around. I have had some cards like that that took me almost forever to find the wrinkles.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: JudgeDred2

The truly sad part is that if these were vintage cards the price differential could have been in the thousands of dollars. I guess that's a topic that gets hashed out on a daily/weekly basis here.

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Posted By: Rich W.

I kept the old holders that I cracked and I will be contacting PSA. Differences like this completely validate the subjectivity of grading. And it also validates why so many of these cards get cracked and re-submitted. Depending on the day, you could get a PSA 5 or a PSA 9.

Rich W.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Rich,

Without some type of evidence that the cards that now reside in the 8/9 holders used to reside in the 5/6 holders (like hi res scans) I think you might as well post it on the PSA site and then be banished from that site. Seriously, I wouldn't bother contacting PSA because they'll probably take the defensive and say that you're making it up.

Me, I believe you. I was hoping for some good evidence so we could start another good PSA bashing thread. It's been a while since we've done that.

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Posted By: Rich W.

Actually, I have some decent evidence. The cards in question are a 1950's non sports cards. Very few have ever been graded and the fact that I have the old holders that match exactly (in regards to card numbers)to the new holders, I think it is pretty strong circumstantial evidence.

When I did call PSA, they were very professional, stating that grading can be subjective. When I pointed out what I stated above, I noted that this goes beyond subjectivity. He suggested posting on the PSA board also.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

But I laughed out loud when I read this post. Quite a bump there but not unheard of with PSA. Thanks, and please post scans of the flips and the newly holdered cards if you can.

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Posted By: sagard

This of course begs the question. Did you or anyone prep the cards before submission the second time?

Only kidding, I'm sure you didn't.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Grading and assigning a grade are reasonable services. However, collectors who take the 1-10 grade on the label too seriously are foolish. In practice, grading isn't entirely consistant-- meaning there is a built in margin of error and a built in subjectivity. Even PSA collectors talk about PSA graders who grade harder than others ("Grader of Death")-- meaning, even they acknowledge an inconsistancy in the grading. This is why I wonder about collectors who consistantly pay more for a Gem Mint 10 when they see no difference between it and an offered Mint 9. This is known as collecting numbers, as the only thing known to the purchaser to be different is a number machine printed a paper label. The inconsistancy in grading assures that the 10 isn't necesarilly a better condition card, and there's a fair chance that resubmission of the cards will result in different grades .... Duly note that I'm talking about cards that appear identical in condition. I'm sure there are many cases where someone buys a 10 as it appears clearly nicer looking and better centered and focused than a same time offered 9. Note that this this person is purchasing based on the looks of the card in conjunction with the assigned grade, rather than paying a premium because of the number alone.

Here's my rhetorical question. Many people resubmit 4s and 5s and 7s and 8s or 9s in an attempt to get a different grade, often as they honestly feel the card was undergraded. How many people crack and resubmit 10s? Someone looking at the answer might deduce that the 10s must have the worst degree of accuracy in grade as 10s are by far the least likely to be resumbitted for correction. How many people would resubmit their graded 8 T206 because they think it should get a 9 or a 10? Quite a few. How many people would resubit their grade 10 T206 because they think it should or could get a 9 or an 8? Approximately none.

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Posted By: Dylan J

Hey and then after i crack out my psa graded 10 t206's i can start a fire using my hundred dollar bills! Arent you stating the obvious???

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Posted By: davidcycleback

That's why I called it a rhetorical question: Because the answer was obvious.

Now I'm no set registry historian, but I would guess it is home to far more overgraded than undergraded cards. After all, it's a numbers game by design-- big enough numbers, literally win an award!--, and there is obvious financial incentive in creating and maintaining the imbalance.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I think top registry sets, in competitive sets, will obviously contain some or many overgraded cards. a person trying to have the highest registry set is buying the holder and not the card in almost potentially every time. I personally, as im sure everyone has, have seen a card i want to buy in a higher graded holder but also saw another one in a lower graded holder but IMO was better and bought it instead. If looking for #1 Registry spot, you dont get this option, you always take highest graded card no matter it would seem. Not my thing thats for sure...

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Posted By: T E

So how do you crack open a PSA slab without damaging the card?

I've actually had the same experience with non-sports cards from a vendor's box-mine was a 1957 Topps red back planes box. Cards were gorgeous. Pull one out of the box and it had that great slightly gritty feel that cards have fresh out of the pack before they are handled. Sent a few in to PSA, got clobbered on one batch, other batches graded higher, no apparent difference.

I think the advice given frequently on this board about buying the card, not the slab is good.

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Posted By: dennis

wrap the slab in a paper towel(keeps plastic from going all over) and place on a hard surface (concrete) then gently pound the top where the flip is (the seal on the very top)with a hammer, until it is cracked. remove paper towel.then just pry it open with your fingers. i've done this with every slab and have never damaged a card. sgc easiest,beckett hardest.

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Posted By: T E

great info...

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Posted By: Rich W

Another method to crack the PSA cases is to take a safety razor blade and repeatedly cut the top border where the label is. Eventually you will cut through the plastic and be able to pull the slab apart.

In regards to the cracking of graded cards, I cracked these non sports cards purely because of the ludicrous grades. And the fact that I received grades 3-4 levels higher proved it. I have never cracked a 7 or 8 looking for a higher grade.

Rich W.