Grading the Graders.......Who is the WORST ? GAI

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Posted By: Chris K.

Hi,
I am really a person who keeps to myself but I really have to share a grading experience with everyone just in case you ever get the urge to use GAI (Global Ind)......I have now sent about only (10) total orders to Global for grading (I never learned my lesson until now).....None of my orders were less than (20) cards and no more than (50)cards......EVERY order was delayed somehow on shipping, grading,customer service, ect.You name it, It happened!!.NEVER have they EVER kept their promise of meeting the amount of business days paid for or so forth....PLUS, I even had an order come back missing some of my cards (EVERYBODY'S WORST NIGHTMARE)!! Never was I ever reimbursed or did they answer my emails or phone calls on the matter.....Has anyone else had POOR experiences w/ GAI? ARE they the worst grading company of the Top three graders ?......I need input.....and if Mike Baker or Danny Fisher are reading this,here is a message from the Holygrailcollector...: HORRIBLE..Simply HORRIBLE.....Better step up guys....Right now you are on the bottom of my list !! you had no idea of who you were dealing with and should've treated me like GOLD (like any customer that EXPECTS to get what they pay for)......I forgot to add the order that I am currently waiting for that has been in their shipping dept. for over 10 days now....WHY is that ??? HATE to bash anyone with a thread like this but, I want people to pick the proper people to grade their cards and get their $$$ worth....

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Posted By: James Gallo

I gave them two pack in late June and waited and waited. I called and emailed. Finally I got Danny Fisher on the phone and he told me that thier caseing company was behind in geting them cases. I thought this was nuts but true. He apologized and told me if I needed anything to contact him directly. I have tsill not gotten my pack and I was 3rd in line when the cases came in. I will see him at a show next month and will likely give him the last few packs I have.

Obviously I am not happy with the service at all, but I would only use them for the pack grading anyway.

That being said if you have had so many problems I would ask for Danny and chew his ear off. Since I onl had two packs (and one was resealed) I don't care too much it became more of an annoyance to me then anything else.

Now I just for get about it and wait.

My bulk special PSA orders have come back early.

Beckett and SGC have always been on time and I have had no problems with either.

James Gallo

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: Brad Freeman

Yes, I have had very bad service from GAI. On May 11, 2006 I sent in 5 cards for crossover grading. On June 2 the grades were posted and I elected to crossover some of the cards.

One glitch---one of the cards was a postcard and GAI indicated on June 12 that its newly designed larger holder was not yet ready to be used. I said that they could wait and send all of the cards back together once they were all encapsulated.

After a few weeks I told them to at least send to me all of the cards except the postcard item. These requests were made via email and most recently a phone conversation with "Ari" who said he would check into things and get back to me. I have not heard from him. I have also inquired as to when the new larger holder would be ready. No answer.

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Posted By: prewarsports

I have used them before with mixed results but they often come across as slightly Rude at Shows. The graders and head guys are always taking orders from their friends straight back to the tables and sometimes even hurrying up and getting a grader to tell their buddies what they "think" a card will grade for free right in front of people paying for quick review service.

SGC in all fairness is the only company I have had cards come up misssing from and they also never reimbursed me even though at first they promised they would. So they will always rank at the bottom of my list.

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Posted By: Chris Counts

I try to stay away from threads bashing anyone, but I'm very frustrated with GAI too ... I've been waiting at least two months for two cards GAI elected not to grade. Whenever I talk with somebody, I'm told the cards are going out tomorrow, or someone will call me right back, but they never do. And we're talking about at least a dozen calls, at least half of which have been to Danny. Never, during any of my conversations with GAI staff, did I feel like I was a valued customer. Whoever I talked to always seemed in a big hurry to get off the phone. GAI is the only grading company I've dealt with and I'm hesitant now to go through this again with another company ... Maybe I'll stick to raw cards ...

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Posted By: cmoking

If orders are delayed, then it sounds like they have good business and are backed up. That is actually the most surprising thing to me. I had thought they were slowly losing business, but is it the exact opposite? Is business at GAI booming?

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Although I've found their customer service to be ok, I think GAI's grading is the worst around. Consistently overgraded. I have yet to crack a GAI case and find a card in the condition specified on the flip. Every one I've ever purchased (except the 1's obviously) have been at least a grade overgraded. I will not buy their cards any longer except at a substantial discount to market on the designated grade.

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Posted By: DJ

Never submitted to GAI, but I'm horrified by respected n54 names frustrated by them.

My question is: what can be done about missing cards? How does a company reemburse if something disappears?

Thanks,

DJ

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Posted By: warshawlaw

One of our members had to take PSA to court to get compensated for a lost T206 Magie.

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Posted By: ScottIngold

My experiance's have alway's been great. I will say that turn around time is not alway's great.... But i can live with that.

GAI did lose or misplace a Young (t206) and reimbursed me full value via check within a week. As well as some packs that were holdered by them in error. Same thing a check shortly followed. This is why i stick with them even though some cards sell for less in the current market.

On the grading side. I sub almost exclusivly t206's and have found most to be undergraded by a 1/2 grade or so. In fact i sold about 20 or 30 3's and 4's about 6 months ago and many board members told me how nice they were for the grades.

I have nothing but good things to say regarding Danny Mike and Steve. This being from someone who submits about 150 cards per year. So i am in know way a large account in there eye's.

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Posted By: leon

Not sure when SGC made the mistake about your card but be expecting an email. They read this board all of the time and will be contacting you....As for GAI.... I have never submitted to them but feel exactly as Adam W. does....best regards

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Posted By: barrysloate

I don't understand how a grading company can lose cards. Every card that comes in is accounted for as per whatever system they use. After they are graded they are packed and shipped. They do not leave the premises during that time. Nothing should get lost. Is "we lost your cards" a code for "they were stolen by one of our employees?"

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I've only submitted to SGC and PSA. I have however purchased cards that were graded by many different companies (SGC, PSA, GAI, ASA, BVG, SCD).

I found that I got the best value for the SCD graded cards. IMO they seemed to be where I would have expected the grades to be. In a few cases I think SCD graded the cards harshly but I would never be hesitant to purchase an SCD graded card.

ASA cards were overgraded but they crossed over to SGC a grade or two lower.

I've never purchased a PRO card for obvious reasons.

I've picked up a few BVG cards and I think they are a bit off in their subjectivity. A BVG 4 may be a PSA or SGC 3.

GAI seems to be a bit generous in their numerical assignments. Some cards I've seen (IMO) seemed to be possibly trimmed. This is based on my experience with a few different issues. I do like the little identifying tabs at the top of the holders.

PSA tends to do an alright job. Something that needs to be considered is the volume of cards that they grade. I don't care for a lot of the holders because the cards will shift position (even in the sleeves). Something that can't be denied is that PSA cards seem to garnish the highest auction prices in the "common" card (not tough issues, T206, N172, etc) arena.

SGC is a good choice. For the most part, they have accurate grading and their forte seems to be VINTAGE cards. The custom holders (black inserts) and grading put them in the top tier (IMO).

To answer the question - PRO is the worst of the ones I've seen. If you look at the three considered the top graders (SGC, PSA and GAI) then the answer is GAI being the least liked by me.

Everyone knows what they say about opinions... they're like AHoles, everybody has one...

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Posted By: Mark

GAI was not very good at reimbursing a mistake they made in my case. They are fun at shows though.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

"I found that I got the best value for the SCD graded cards."

Public service announcement (sorry for the hijack) for anyone who may be unaware: Please note that there are two different SCDs.

The "old" SCD is the same SCD that publishes the weekly paper. Their grading was largely accurate, there are still cards in their slabs available on eBay, and they often do represent a nice value. The old SCD slabs can be identified because they have the SCD logo with the red circle.

Last year, SCD stopped grading cards and evidently sold their equipment to another company that also calls themselves "SCD Authentic", or something like that. Their slabs look virtually identical to the old SCD, except the circle is no longer red, and the company grading them is called "Sports Cards Direct", as opposed to "Sports Collectors Digest".

With the latter, I would proceed with caution.

-Al

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Posted By: James Feagin

Interesting, GAI called me a week ago Monday and asked me to verify some account info. I asked them when the cards would ship, and they told me immediately. However, they called me on the 4th day of a 15 day service. I wonder if they're keeping the package in house to make it out "on time"?

James

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Posted By: Bob

I guess if anyone should have the right to bitch about GAI, it is me. I won't go in to the long story about how a complete set of E98s along with an Old Put Clarke was lost in the mail and how long it took me to be fully reimbursed, etc. I was gunshy of GAI for a while after that but I use them regularly, along with SGC now. I use SGC for cards which are non-standard size, like all my Zeenuts, etc. plus other cards from time to time. I believe SGC and GAI are very similar in the grades they give out and take exception with the "one grade higher" comments made above. That hasn't been my experience. Cards which I don't believe are trimmed but rather smaller because of wide-swinging size differentials, like the M116 Sporting Life, still get slabbed authentic at GAI and GAI is just as brutal in grading my caramels as SGC. (My tobacco cards fare much better with both companies and I have never figured this out).
I have found the guys at GAI to be very personable but SGC is much better at meeting deadlines in sending out cards and in notifying you of invoice submission numbers and keeping you informed. This is something GAI needs to work on. I do think GAI listens to customer's complaints as for a while there, there were a lot of collectors (myself included) who received "rattlers" or cards that didn't fit snugly and wandered around the slab outside the designated space they were supposed to go. This seems to have been corrected.
For me, GAI is much more consistent in their grading than PSA. SGC remains the industry standard (as much as I whine about tough grading) but GAI isn't that far behind. I will buy PSA cards but will no longer submit to them. I was about to mention the 2 SCDs but it has been taken care of in the foregoing post...

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Posted By: warshawlaw

that's why your cards are harshly graded by GAI

One more gripe about GAI: as I get older I find their flips harder to read under some lights. Black on silver was a neat idea but isn't very practical. And their print is too darned small.

Beckett: Most of you remember that Beckett started out as the most brutally undergrading service anyone had ever seen. I think it was BGS. So many collectors and dealers complained that they started BVG to pull things into line with the industry. They then started another label that they used for the shiny crap sold on tv (I think it was BCCG or something like that), which cost them what cred they had with serious collectors.

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Posted By: ChrisK.

Well, everyone, I think I am satisfied enough to know that I am going to end my rocky relationship with GAI until they clean up their attitude and performance as a grading company.......I really HATE to bash any particular company for their practices on what they actually do within their closed doors but as a consumer, you expect to "get what you pay for" and NOTHING LESS.....If you pay for 10 days service, you should get 10 days service..if your order gets screwed up, it is NOT your fault, IT IS THEIR FAULT...As a professional grader and Professional company they should be ready for anything that comes their way...GAI can use every excuse in the book they want to but the bottom line is CUSTOMER SATISFACTION.......Right ?? .........I think I have vented enough......Love all the threads to this question and I am going to try SGC a bit......See everyone around on Ebay.......

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Posted By: joe brennan

......See everyone around on Ebay.......

Chris, Just wanted to say hi. I've bought from Chris many times and have always gotten great service, fast response to e-mail and very good products.

Thanks again, Joe


A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

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Posted By: ChrisK.

Joe, TY Much.....Hope to see you in the future.......This will probably be my only thread I ever write on N54..I am not much of a chat room person....EVERYONE who goes to the National......ENJOY the show and buy LOTS of GOOD stuff !!! I can not make it due to my 4 yr. old daughter who has some health issues......GOOD LUCK to ALL who attend !!!

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

GAI lost 10 vintage expensive unopened packs [incl 1955 Topps BB, 1958 Topps BB, 1956 Davy Crockett 5 cent etc.] that I hand delivered to them. I was reimbursed, but only after 9 weeks of excuses, stalling, unreturned phone calls, lies etc. Very unprofessional. Thank God PSA is starting to grade packs.

Frank

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Frank, somehow I suspect getting reimbursed for packs like those hardly made you feel much better. Unreal that they could lose stuff like that.

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Lost, or "lost"?

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Posted By: edacra

"I don't care for a lot of the holders because the cards will shift position (even in the sleeves)."

I've been dying to gripe about this...it's not just the PSA holders themselves, it's how they're placing the cards in the holder. It drives me nuts seeing a National Game pin sideways from the pinback, or the cards placed sideways, slanted, uneven, etc. PSA seems to be the worst offender, of a pretty common problem. Sorry if that was a little off toic.

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Posted By: T206Collector

It didn't take long for me to realize why SGC is the best grading company in the business -- consistency of grading & high quality of customer service is all anybody really wants. I've never had any major problems with SGC, and they bend over backwards to fix the minor ones.

SGC is a company that wants to prove that it is the best grading company around -- and takes pride in knowing that it is.

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Posted By: Rob

I 've have an "7-8" and a "6" cards get mishandled by PSA, getting small mid creases on the back, gained only through hard squeezing a card saver, and coming back as "4"'s (something I had determined with experiments). I had thought it was my imagination, or perhaps I did something wrong. I was wondering if anyone else has had such an experience? The "6" lost more value than the "7-8" card,and it seems 2 yet more valuable slider cards each went for a grade higher than I expected, perhaps to compensate for that bungling, so it's not a net loss I am concerned about, but whether such mishandling happens very often.

In any event, I make darn sure I keep enlarged scans of any card I submit to any grading company. I was wondering if anyone has attempted to get compensated by PSA/SGC/GAI ect for such damage? It seems like it would be impossible to prove in any subsequent litigation, as such abscence of hairline creases aren't really going to show up in a scan.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

After reading the thread I suppose the approach could have been to grade the graders on specific areas:

• Customer Service
  
• Overall grading (subjectivity, consistency, etc.)
  
• Packaging
  

Can anyone else think of more criteria?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Whether its GAI.....PSA.....SGC.....etc, etc., in today's environment they all basically
serve the same purpose: and, that is to provide you a higher degree of confidence
that you are acquiring an item that some professional deems is authentic (and not
altered, or otherwise).

The "NUMBERS GAME" is something totally different, it can be arbitrary, it does vary
from one Grading service to another, can be frustrating when one company views a
card as "evid. of trim", and another grades the same card. But, most striking of all....
can someone out there honestly tell me why the number "8" is so magical ?

And, why a "9" commands a price an order of magnitude greater than an "8" ?

Finally, if a Pre-War card could get a "10", would it command a price 100 times that
of an "8" for the same card ? And, what human eye can really discern the difference
between an "8 or 9 or 10" ?


I guess I'm just an old T-Rex and should have stayed back in the Paleolithic Age;
because....darn it....I just don't understand.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Some 8,9, and 10's look the same- and I bet if you sent ten high grade cards to any of the companies, then cracked them out and resubmitted them, you wouldn't get exactly the same ten grades the second time around. Despite all the good graded cards have done for the hobby there is an element of absurdity to the whole process. But the bottom line is this is what the consumer wants.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I don't quite understand it either, T-Rex. A card as it comes from the manufacturer is in Mint condition, independent of the quality of the manufacture. A card which has become worn is not in Mint condition, however, a card which is damaged may still be in Mint condition if the damage was sustained prior to the card's release to the public, I think.

T-Rex: do you think that grading companies should evaluate imperfections in the manufacturing process of cards which result in problems with registry, color, lines and spots, cutting irregularities, lack of image sharpness, card damage and other differences among cards which otherwise are Mint?

Or should they only concern themselves with wear related issues?

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think they do take that into consideration. A 10 should in theory be a perfect card. If you pull a card out of a pack that is a bit off-center or has a print line, then that's a 9. Am I correct on that one?

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Yeah, I believe thats it, in general. I don't know about the relative severity of the different flaws, but it seems to me that they are too pre-occupied with centering (maybe because it can be measured) and comparitively disinterested in photographic image clarity. Heck, I think it is around a 6 before they start thinking about fuzzy corners.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Hi guys.

A card as it comes from the manufacturer is most definitely NOT in mint condition. A card is MORE LIKELY to be in mint condition when it comes right from the manufacturer. However, a poor print job, factory miscut, printers spots, roller lines, off-center cut, or imperfections in the paper stock in general will all detract from a card's condition.

In theory, if a card is a 10, it means that the card has remained in the condition it was in when it came from the manufacturer, but it also means that the card was in perfect condition when it came out of the factory - perfect printing registration and gloss, no weird printer marks, no problems with centering or cut.

Of course this is where most people have problems differentiating between an 8 and a 10. Because an 8 can look like a 10 if you overlook the little print dots on the card, or the centering, or the roughness of the edges.

Hope this helps.

-Al

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Your question in your post of 2:14 PM brings out an important point. And,
that is do graders only look at corners and centering in their determination
of a "number" to give a card ? Unfortunately, in many cases "Yes" is the
correct answer.

I've seen Goudeys, PlayBalls, and the most notorious....1949 Leaf's having
grades 6, 7 and even 8; and, the registration on some of these cards is so
bad, you are reaching for a pair of "3-D glasses" to bring these cards into
focus.

Come on guys there also has to be an aesthetic component to a card that
is graded 7 or better. If the picture of the player is blurry, there is no-way
that card warrants a grade that high; and, yet it occurs more often than not.

Did I give you a good answer to your question, Gil ?

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

T-Rex: Im ready to take back this hobby from the graders, by force if necessary. I'm simply recruiting supporters.

I am not against grading, I am against inconsistent grading based on criteria other than the preferences of most collectors.

Edited to add: Oh, and losing your cards, then giving you the run around doesn't seem to be a policy which would be popular with most collectors.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

The term Mint condition applied to cards is on loan from the Coin hobby (you know - those guys who get their collectables from the MINT).

In that hobby their collectable is in Mint condition if it leaves the manufacturing facility in perfect condition. Also if after the coin is struck, passes through the counter, down the conveyer, into the bags, the bags trucked to the Federal Reserve for distribution to the banks .... and the eventual distribution to us <------ at that point the coin is still in Mint State eventhough it may be scratched, dinged, dented, have general "bag marks", etc.

There are various grades of Mint State from a low of MS60 to the virtually unachievable MS70. Based on this precedent, I feel that a card is Mint if its condition shows no circulation wear, only distribution and manufacturing problems. In no way is this statement to be construed as all Mint condition cards are equivalent.

I simply contend that for the card Mint condition variances can not be assessed by a 4 point grading system of 7,8,9,10. The coin hobby uses 11 points for a far more durable product which if any imperfections exist in the manufacture of a coin (such as die chatter which causes a multiple strike) the coin which is imperfect - and gets past QC - is an error coin. So essentially only perfect specimens leave the Mint. Therefore all Mint State degredation is attributable to coin handling prior to release to the public. 11 - point scale for coins which were all identical and flawless until the after strike handling system kicks in.


Edited to add: I think I am wrong. The card hobby is trying to set aside only two grades (9 & 10) to identify all mint condition cards - aren't we?

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Posted By: James Gallo

HOW is the hell are cards or packs LOST from a grading company!!!!!

Several people mentioned this happening at GAI has anyone every had this happen with SGC or PSA.

What explanation does a grading company give someone or is it just, we lost your cards. I certainly would not feel this is an acceptable explanation.

I would like to hear more about this.

James Gallo

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

"What explanation does a grading company give someone or is it just, we lost your cards. I certainly would not feel this is an acceptable explanation."


They told me that they were sent to another customer by mistake. They were never able to identify who got them and that person has never come forward.

Frank

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Posted By: Griffin's

<<<Several people mentioned this happening at GAI has anyone every had this happen with SGC or PSA>>>

Dan McKee might have something to say about this......

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Posted By: BcD

he has nothing to say about PSA!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Their explanation for losing Dan's card was that Dan never sent it and he must be lying about it. Fortunately, the judge saw it differently.

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Posted By: Rick

...why not send valueable cards insured and registered?

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Posted By: barrysloate

It was fully insured, but that wasn't the issue. Adam can tell the story as he knows it well.