Problems with requesting an "authentic" grade?

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Posted By: jackgoodman

Didn't want to hijack Leon's thread about an authentic grade, but was wondering the following and would appreciate your opinions:

If you send cards in to SGC (or any of the others that will grade a card "Authentic") and you request that grade on your order form, do you stand the risk of having the grader think that you think there is something wrong with the card and therefore they look at it more harshly or with less benefit of any doubt? It's early here in California so if this sentence sounds more like stream of conscience thinking, it may be.

Thanks for chiming in.

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Posted By: jay behrens

That is my thought also. At the same time, if you know or have suspisions that a card is altered, is it ethical that someone is trying to slip an alterd card past the graders in hopes of getting a number grade?

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: steve f

After receiving back a few strips as "evid. of trimming", to eliminate weeks in transit, I now add the line 'If ungradeable, please Authenticate'.

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Posted By: Brian E.

I did the same thing on my last two submissions; I made a note on the submission form that if a numerical grade cannot be given, please slab as authentic.

I'm still waiting on my last submission, but the first one came back with numerical grades.

Brian E.

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Posted By: Josh K.

I have always resisted putting the "please grade any card as auth that doesnt receive a numrical grade" for that very reason - they might think there was something wrong.

However, the few times that I sent in cards that I knew to be trimmed (some willards) I did request an authentic grade if they were ungradeable (and that is exactly what they got).

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Posted By: steve f

Josh, agreed. I should qualify my last reply. I'll request "Auth. if Ungradeable" only on hand-cuts (I love those scraps). I own no regular issues that are graded Auth., but wouldn't mind that Plank.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I was all in favor of the authentic grade. Now I am not because the way it has played out has been that any piece of crap, no matter how altered, is being labeled authentic. I've seen cards with trimmed borders slabbed as authentic, cards with areas colored in slabbed as authentic, etc. Consequently, I no longer will have my cards labeled that way nor will I buy any cards labeled that way. The graders need to start specifying what is wrong with a card on the flip if "authentic" is to mean anything other than "altered".

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Posted By: Bob

I also add the addendum that if a card is determined to be ungradeable with a numerical grade to please slab it as "authentic." I also cringe when I do this because I agree with the above posters that it is almost giving the graders an open shot to find something altered or trimmed even if you feel it is not, but I'd rather have it slabbed authentic than returned with a little note saying "evid of trimming." I believe GAI is now slabbing cards as authentic without a prior request if the issue is trimming, at least that has been my experience.
As far as Adam's comment, I agree and disagree in parts: I agree that too much is being lumped in as "authentic" but on the other hand a very nice card which may be barely trimmed or miscut still brings a heck of a lot more on ebay in a slab showing off the eye appeal of the card. I also noticed that more and more sets are being sold in Mastro, lelands and other auctions where 3 or 4 of the cards, all slabbed, are graded as authentic and it doesn't seem to hurt the lot bidding at all. For this reason I believe that eventually the stigma of a card slabbed as "authentic" because of size problems or trimming will become more and more valuable, especially tougher cards from tough series, and the price disparity which exists will shrink quite a bit. Although some "purist" collectors with cash to burn might blanche and be turned off by a, say, E97 Keeler which appears exmt but is authentic because of a very slight trim, this card will continue to become more and more valuable and expensive in years to come.
Just my 2 cents...

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Posted By: warshawlaw

merely on the trash I've seen as "authentic" without explanation. If the graders would only label the flips with a bit more discretion I would be ok with it.

I will always take a card in poor condition over a seemingly ex-mt trimmed card. To me the trimmed card is in sub-poor condition.

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Posted By: Richard Masson

having an impact on the graders. I'll leave it to someone from SGC to explain quality control procedures, but I don't think the grader is aware of instructions on the order form. The cards are graded (including a peer review on anything controversial)and scored before they go back to data entry which enters grades and produces the labels. Data entry would match the instructions (A or no A) to the labels before passing them both along to slabbing. The slabbed cards are reviewed again before the order is complete. Long story short, what you write on the order form has no impact on how the card is graded.

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Posted By: Josh K.

helpful info richard - thanks.

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Posted By: leon

If what you are saying is you don't think putting an "A" and/or "Authentic" grade down on the sheet you turn into SGC will have an effect on whether or not they will encapsulate with an A, I think you are incorrect. Of the 46 cards I got back last week 5 of them had an issue. I put down 4 with an "A", but not the 5th. The 4 were graded Authentic and the one I didn't denote with an "A" came back unslabbed. I know you just had some first hand experience but your situation was not the norm for grading, of course, operationally. I can verify on Monday but I think an "A" does tell them to do an Authentic holder, otherwise they won't holder a card with an issue.....at least that's my recent experience.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

when they are asked to authenticate cards. I saw that at the National last year. What they do in the event of "A if not numerically graded" I don't know.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

The "A" means Altered, not authentic. There is a key to all the letter designations on the website.

My last submission I designated 2 cards for Authenticaation, one my E94 Wagner, I knew was trimmed and just wwanted it holdered, they goofed and marked it trimmed and didn't holder it but are going to holder it next time I submit. I think this gives some credence to what Richard said about the graders not seeing the instruction sheet. The second card (T206 Merkle, Lenox back, no name) got graded a 10, I thought an odd grade because the card has no creases.

I think I will do the blanket Auth if does not grade. I am ammassing quite a T206 collection of nice trimmed cards, hoping to get them at least holdered.

Lee

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Posted By: Richard Masson

Leon,
My point is that the grading of the card is independant of the label production and slabbing process. In your case, the grader forwards five cards marked A. The data entry makes the labels for slabbing. He's got the sheet and therefore knows not to slab the fifth one.

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Posted By: leon

Yes, I agree with you on that point. The graders, themselves, don't see the submission sheets when grading.....