Outrageous shipping- what's a guy to do?

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Posted By: Bob

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8795747709

Seller is charging $8 to ship this one Obak baseball card. The ironic thing is that it is advertised as a 1910 Obak and it is actually the 1911 which I don't need (my '10 needs an upgrade).
I wrote him an email and told him I thought he could send it first class in a card holder for $2-$3. Notice that there was no mention of a shipping cost in his ad.
Thoughts?

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Posted By: Keith Javic

There is an area in ebay where you can report shipping overcharges. I would definetly do it in this case in which the seller didn't tell you the charge in the auction. I had to do it a case where a seller wanted to charge me $12 for parcel post or $15 for prioirty mail to ship a pamphlet that probably cost 60 cents 1st class.

Ebay won't give you an info on what was done after the report due to some sort of privacy issue, and chances are it is just ignored, but I would still give it a shot.

KJ

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Posted By: Sean

Can you assume its coming Priority Mail with Signature Confirmation & Insurance? I would bet an envelope with a stamp.

What does he say to the $3 shipping - $4 is the max I would pay for 1 card first class in a bubble envelope...

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Posted By: Bob

The problem is that I have a 100% feedback rating and I don't want some bonehead to give me a negative if I don't complete the transaction.
I am still kicking myself for not noticing that the red Obak back is a 1911 not a 1910. I know better.....

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I always say you have to pay if it's stated (unless it's like $150 to ship one card). If it's unstated and unreasonably high, you are being reasonable to expect it lowered. The key being that the seller should list the shipping charge.

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Posted By: Sean

Ask him for a better shipping price and if he says no pay the $8 and wait till he leaves feedback and leave him the seldom used neutral feedback and tell about his high and unfair shipping costs.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Bob, you could tell him that you're a lawyer who works for the government.

I remember when a judge bought some autographs from me. Made me paranoid for a bit, until I realized that judges collect just like everyone else. Besides, if it's part of a secret Grand Jury proceedings, the presiding judge probably doesn't purchase the evidence, particularly with his personal check.

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Posted By: Joann

That's too bad. I try to remember to look for shipping before I bid on something but bet that half the time I forget. 100% feedback is a lot to give up, but it still is too bad that you have to weigh that against shipping charges that almost double the total cost of item.

I will say thank you for pointing it out though. I had several of these items on my watch list. Now I'll make sure not to bid on this guy's auctions in the future. Mental note to self.

J

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Posted By: davidcycleback

One thing a seller can do who worries about people complaing about shipping price is to give the seller the option of selling of sending an SASE. Most buyers will consider the SASE too much work, especially if paying with PayPal and knowing they taking shipping damage loss responsibility, and will choose the shipping charge. And if someone complains afterwards that the shipping charge was too high, the seller can reiterate that he had the option of sending an SASE ... If a buyer turns down 37 cents + 5 cents for envelope, he is hardly in a position to complain that a $4 shipping charge was too high.

This also illustrates to bidders who think that shipping should be exact cost (stamp + envelope) that most bidders will pay more than cost for the convenience and security of the seller doing the packaging/shipping/addressing. Not unlike a labratory test, when offered the option of taking the time and responsibility to do the shipping themseles, most buyers will pay extra $$ to have the seller to the shipping.

Many bidders pooh pooh a seller's claims that a shipping charge should include the time to package, stand in line at the Post Office, etc. What is humorous about this is that most bidders in part chose not to write out SASEs because the feel that writing SASEs, foreward envelope, bank check and order note takes too much work. Despite their seeming disdain of the idea that work time should be included in the shipping charge, these non-SASE buyers instead illustrate that they do feel that the shipping/packaging time has monetary value as they pay extra money in order shift their work load to the seller.

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Posted By: Geno

In my opinion, 100% feedback is immensely overrated. Who cares if you have 99.8% vs 100%? If anybody wants to look it up, they can see your response, which would say something to the effect of the guy being reported to Ebay for gouging on shipping. I have one negative in about 900 and could care less if I had a few more - nor would I think any sellers would care less if they saw a few here and there with an explanation. People are afraid to give negatives, therefore shady sellers keep ripping people off. Believe me, there are more important things in this world then somebody writing a bad sentence about you!

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Bob M

I can top your "outrageous shipping fee" story, some jerk wanted to hit me
with a $12 fee for 2 BB cards (only Vg ones). And, he too, did not advertise
the shipping fee in advance.
So, I refused to pay him $40 ($28 for cards and $12 shipping). He wasted no
time hitting my profile with a NEG. So, I reciprocated and left this nasty
comment "Don't trust him, he has outrageous ship fees, and he is a liar."

I have only one RED mark because of him, but he is tagged now for all to see
who they are dealing with. Unfortunately, a lot of ebay bidders do not check
out seller's Feedback before they bid.

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Posted By: Bill Todd

A column in yesterday's Washington Post magazine was about exactly this issue. Seller wanted to charge stupid (unannounced) shipping, buyer was worried about a negative. The author says he wrote to a seller, cancelling the transaction and saying, "Ding me if you want to, but if you do here's what I'm going to say about you." No more was heard about the matter.

Bill

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

High feedback + 100% positive? Save that for selling. Make purchases under a new account.

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Posted By: Glenn

I just got an invoice from the same seller, also with an $8 shipping charge. Also, though the listing mentions that PayPal is welcome, he is apparently unable to receive payments to his PayPal account, so now he's specifying that I should pay by money order. He did abide by his promise to determine shipping at end of auction, whoopee, but if he says he'll accept PayPal and then does not, he has violated his end of the contract, has he not? I know he had a whole swoop of auctions this weekend, so I'm sure there are others here who are dealing with the same seller -- have you (other buyers) had trouble sending PayPal? Do you have any qualms about sending a money order to him?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Bob, if you told the seller that the charge is unreasonably high, especially considering it was not listed in description, and that you are a laywer, I bet the charge would be lowered.

I do beleive that if such a case the went to mediation (not that many are suing over $8 shipping fee), the mediator or judge would likely pick a shipping charge that is within the standard range. It's unlikely she would agree with the argument that if a charge is not listed, the seller gets to pick any price. In fact, in a small claims court case involving a billing dispute, the judge will often comb through the the bills or invoices and omit or lower charges that she feels are unwarrented or too high.

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Posted By: Jim Manos

I have no problem spending $8 shipping. I will buy these all day long at $103 with $8 shipping. But I see your point. Seller had most of these cards in the wrong area as well.

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Posted By: Jim Manos

I did try to send paypal and it was rejected. I also noticed he has very little feedback, but good.... I have never dealt with him so guess it is another $111 dollar bet on red ??? Maybe I win, maybe I won't. Although you will probably see the card in the B/S/T if the seller comes through... Keep you posted.

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Posted By: Bob

You need I just sometimes get tired of eating shipping costs that make no sense. It's only $5 more than it should be at the most and I throw that much away constantly it seems, but there comes a time when you just say enough is enough.
As far as the 100% feedback, I like it. It represents over 6000 positive transactions, although with multiple buyers or sellers it comes to over 4000. I have had 2 negs, one from a retaliatory who never paid years ago on a VHS tape and one from a guy who bought an album he thought was scratched and neg'd me before I even had a chance to refund his money or let me know. He was a real ass. Never had a neg with regard to sportscards. I just like the 100% so people will know I am an honest guy who always tries to make things right if there is ever a problem.
As far as a contract breaker, I think the fact the guy advertised the card as a 1910 Obak when it is a 1911 might, in itself, do the trick. We'll see...

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I'm a judge, I collect. Judges are people, too.


I have bought things twice on eBay where the shipping was outrageous... last one was an old metal car, a Dinky Toy. The guy wanted about 4 times the selling price to ship. So I finally just paid the purchase price only via Paypal, and told him NOT to ship the car, instead give it to a kid next time he went to church.

Since then I always email up front when shipping is not listed.

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Posted By: Jim Manos

Let me know??

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Posted By: bobbie

Same Guy charged me $8.00 for the other 3 Obaks he had, Kinda glad I bought 3! At least he diddent try for 24.00 from me.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

No sir, Jim. I'm sitting down in south central Kentucky.

Just after I was elected, 12 1/2 years ago, an old wise attorney told me that district judges deal with the dregs of society, and their clients.

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Posted By: Charlie O'Neal

Tbob,

There is a way to get out of your auction and works almost everytime. Item is not as described. Since it was actuall a 1911 instead of a 1910 it should work. You will probably have to pay first and then mention that it is not the card described in the auction.

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Posted By: Dave Simon

Guys, it's not just on the sell side either. Recently I had a horrible experience with a buyer in Canada who decided that the ebay calculator price was too high for shipping and decided to pay 'what he thought was fair'. Needless to say, I finally gave up on my powerseller rep and just shipped the items to be rid of him. I soft pack and then box all shipments and he claimed that all the holders were cracked?! and left me a negative. When I asked for photos he left a negative.

The moral of the story is that ebay didn't do anything to help and it wasn't worth the $9. he stiffed me on for the negative.

I have also been told by a Quikdrop franchise owner that it is corporate policy to make shipping a profit center and apparently ebay is ok with it.

ds

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Posted By: J Levine

It is illegal (although done constantly by many large companies) to make a profit on shipping and handling. The lawyers in the group can tell you more but I was recently involved in a transaction (non-ebay, non cards) over christmas where I was charged nearly $35 in shipping and handling for an item shipped parcel post in a plain box and no packing material that the post office said cost $3.10 to ship. I ended up going to small claims (I have had it with shipping overcharges as many of you know)...the company representative stood in court and tried to justify that the box was expensive and the time it took to pack it cost the company money and the printing of the packing slip (done on a computer printer) cost money, etc. The judge actually laughed at him and told him that he was forwarding the case to the postal inspector. I won my $35 back...very satisfying. The judge said that it is illegal to profit off shipping charges although handling fees are often inflated.

Joshua

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Posted By: Josh K.

I agree that $8 is high for shipping. However, what I cant understand is why we complain so much about these shipping issues and not the shipping costs charged by many of the auction houses. I just recently won one of the mastro lots (with a few partners) and the shipping was over $60 for a lot that was under 15k. That seems extremely high to me - Ive received shipments from SGC with at least that many cards and close in value for around $20-30.

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Posted By: Bob

I haven't heard a word from the seller yet so I am contemplating my next move. Because the card was mislabled, I was able to find another buyer for it at the same price so I will probably go ahead and buy the damn thing, $8 shipping for an $11 card, to be rid of the whole situation and chalk it up to experience like the time I bought a slabbed PSA T206 6 years ago on ebay and shipping was $8 and bought 2 more because I assumed there would be a combined shipping rate, and ended up paying $24 shipping for the 3 slabs which were sent in a plain manilla envelope with no padding and no insurance. You live and learn.

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Posted By: Jim Manos

Tbob I am in the same boat. Let me k now if you hear from the guy??

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Posted By: Glenn

I mailed a money order yesterday. I'll post when I hear from the seller or when my cards arrive.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

a legal case on $35.00 shipping. That would really be the definition of small claims..... Not sure what you bought, but surprising that our court system is taking time to deal with a case that small. If it is clearly spelled out in an auction what the shipping is, it's pretty difficult to defend being mad over it. If it's spring on you after the auction, you have some leverage. You just gotta incorporate that price into your bidding scheme.

Owning a UPS Store, I get people coming in ALL the time shipping ebay items. Most are larger items that people don't have packed and didn't estimate size or weight properly to get a really good estimate from the ebay calculators. We ship TONS of ebay items for people--both UPS and USPS on a weekly basis.

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Posted By: J Levine

I thought that small claims will hear just about any case. This lasted all of 15 minutes. What I bought was something for my classroom. An education packet that included a small book, dvd, and cd-rom. Weighed about 1.5 lbs. Thrown into a 8x8 box with no packing material so it was loose and rattled around. Charged $35 for the shipping and handling on my credit card where I thought the shipping was going to be standard. The only reason I took it to court is that I was frustrated with their customer service, they were local (within 75 miles), and they screwed my class and me as a teacher. This was something I needed for my class and I thought $35 was buying priority mail, packed safely, shipped in a timely manner, etc. It took 5 weeks to pack and ship 73 miles...not priority, not packed well, nothing.

Joshua

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Posted By: Jim Manos

Will keep you posted.

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Posted By: bigfish

maybe pamela lee is going to jump out of the package??


Toby- she might "pop" out of the package...have you seen those tracts of land?

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Posted By: Glenn

My cards arrived today.

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Posted By: Bob

Just a quick update for the few who do care- still have not heard from him. I decided to just screw it and send him the stupid $8 shipping and lo and behold paypal says his account is kerplunk. I will not send him a m.o. He sold me the wrong card, charged me excessive shipping, and his stated payment method doesn't work...
So how are y'all this Monday

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Posted By: leon

Doing great except friggin' Lawyer Ron didn't win and I plunked down my whole $5 on him. If I wasn't stuffed from the 6 hour continual gourmet buffet at Lone Star Park I would have been upset....sort of....well, not really....but it's a good story line...

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Posted By: Steve M.

pleased to see one of the board members included you in his "I'd like to meet" post. I didn't get honored as such.

Monday's are wonderful! Get all the new contracts faxed in over the weekend. $$$ AND, it will be a short week cause I'm leaving for Vegas Friday. So if anyone is worried that I haven't posted this weekend that's why.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Didn't win? Lawyer Ron came in 12th. (most of the horses beat him)

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

to the glue factory........it'll be back to school and the kids need the Elmer's before you know it.....

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Posted By: warshawlaw

A lot of these sellers try to make up for a low sell price with ridiculous shipping. Some yahoo just tried to charge me $8.05 to ship a $9.95 card. I emailed him and said it was absurd. Here is his response: "I can understand your feelings that the shipping is to much. Unfortunately I became ill and had to quit my job. I am now doing Ebay full time to supplement my income. I paid over $25.00 for those two cards about 5 years ago. I am also losing my but on most of my purchases,especially non sports and especially Exhibit cards. It cost me $3.00 dollars for Ebay. It costs $4.05 to ship UPS Ground with a tracking number. It cost 25 cents to take this item to the post office. I am in business to make money not to lose money. I can ship it regular mail for $4.00. That would be in a padded envelope. I hope this is acceptable to you.
P.S. You really got this item cheap."

Boo-friggdey-hoo; he gets ill and I am supposed to be ok with being ripped off? The guy must think I fell off the turnip truck too; it doesn't cost $3 to ebay a $9.95 item. I'm just so broken up that I want to rip off a few more buyers myself.

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Posted By: Scot York

I sell items on ebay every now and then under sgt.hoss. I charge only $3.00 for insured shiping, even if registered mail is needed. I have a customer who buys alot of 1920's cards. It never fails, he wins, he complains about shipping cost and never leaves feedback. He says he prefers a stamp and No insurance. So that's what he gets for a buck. Go figure...

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

The numbers may prove it to be more cost effective to forego insurance on less expensive items. It has worked out that way for me.

But I also do not see whining about shipping costs. That element should be factored into your bid. Heck, many auctions charge 15% or greater vig. Certainly that value is factored into one's bid. Where is the beef?

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Posted By: warshawlaw

15% vig is fine on an auction. Trying to jack up your sale price 90% on shipping is not.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

The rules haven't changed. If the shipping isn't stated, the buyer needs to determine that (as well as other relevant factors) prior to bidding. When this is overlooked, the Wake's approach sounds reasonable ie. tell the seller to not ship the card and advise him that he is getting a negative. You thereby complete the transaction and the seller has no legitimate beef against you.

Of course, this would not apply to relatively expensive cards, but sellers are not charging 90% card value for shipping on costly items.

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Posted By: andy becker

if the auction states $10 shipping....as a buyer, i obviously would factor $10 into my bid/purchase price.
unless it is something i really needed and wanted, i'm sure i would blow off any seller asking for looney shipping money.

if the auction states something to the affect of "shipping will be determined at auction end", and then the seller invoices you for $10 shipping (for one card)....i would question the seller. and most likely refuse to pay.

if shipping fees are clearly stated, then i would ask also....where's the beef???

i charge $2.00 for shipping with delivery conformation. insurance is always optional. shipping is always combined.

as a seller, i feel a low shipping fee will increase participation in my auctions. i certainly do loose on some shipments....but i may have profited unknowingly by increased bids.

i have heard of sellers charging $20 shipping for a $20 item that they list on ebay for $0.99.
they are avoiding the ebay fees by doing that.....but that is a seller's choice.

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Posted By: Bob

Yeah, too bad about Lawyer Ron. Turned out he hurt himself during the race and will miss the Preakness and probably be out a while.
One last point, on the guy who wanted to charge me $8 shipping for the $12 card, please note that there was no mention about how much shipping was anywhere in his ad. My problem is I am used to dealing with great guys on the 54 Board and many on ebay and never figured someone could be so idiotic on shipping charges. You live and learn. I still have not heard back from him on my request for a reasonable shipping price so I assume the transaction is done and I am going to email him to that effect.