Survey: How many of you saw this auction before it ended?

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Posted By: T206Collector

Since I search for anything with "Piedmont" in it, I was able to see it. How did any else of you find it before it ended?

http://cgi.ebay.com/25-Mini-Piedmont-Cigarette-Baseball-Cards-NR_W0QQitemZ8770801119QQcategoryZ213QQrdZ1QQcmdZVi ewItem

I should add, that I didn't win -- far from it, I set my auctionsniper at about $4,000. Boy was I way off! I knew the lot was worth over $10K as a result of the AWH cards, but I really was hoping no AWH card fans saw this one. Guess again.

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Posted By: Zach Rice

It was a great lot and i'm sure most saw it. The E222s alone are worth around what the lot went for, the T206s are like an added bonus. I give a kudos out to David Levin who won them. Great lot.

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Posted By: Josh K.

I didnt see it, but what I really want to know what was zach doing bidding over $8500? Im convinced he has has some hidden stash he isnt telling us about.

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Posted By: T206Collector

Can you reveal how you found the auction? It was listed really poorly, in my opinion.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I give up.

AWH?

Fill me in.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Never mind. Found it:

http://www.oldcardboard.com/e/e2/e222/e222.asp?cardsetID=766

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Posted By: T206Collector

Yup. That's it.

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Posted By: Zach Rice

Hal-A.W.Hs are one of the toughest minor league issues that exist, their ACC is E222 and they were produced in 1910. The last one sold in auction was in last year's Robert Edwards and it brought about 3k with juice, very tough. I found it because i'm an ebay junky and search some very weird stuff but i'm sure once one found it he told a buddy etc.

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Posted By: leon

The AWH's are in the $1000 - $2000 each.....probably in the middle...so I don't think it was a steal by any means. I wouldn't have bid as much as the high bid but it's a decent buy....since I don't keep up with the T206 prices too much it might be really good depending on the technical grades of those....very cool cards the AWH's....I have 4-5.....regards...ps...no I didn't see it..

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Posted By: T206Collector

The breakup value of the lot would be around what the seller paid for it, maybe a little bit more. Certainly not a steal. Since all of the T206 cards had back damage, the most I feel the breakup value of the T206 cards would be is about $2,300-$2,500. The best T206 card was the Cobb green, and it would've had trouble grading higher than a 1. Maybe that one was worth $600 or so. The AWH cards at $2,500 a piece get you up to $12K, but since that is what they sell for in VG or so condition, you might have trouble selling the Otey for that. Anyway, I'm happy someone paid about market value for them, as opposed to coming away with a real steal (if it couldn't be me, that is)!

This auction is a huge learning tool for me. Even the most poorly listed auctions for the rarest vintage baseball cards will find two bidders that will drive the price up to market value.

This is yet another lesson that if you see something on ebay sell for a price that is too good to be true, chances are it is fake. It is definitely not a case of people not being able to find the auction.

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Posted By: david levin

Leon,

So would you sell any of yours for $1,500?

Dave

ps. there is one back in there that you dont already have.

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Posted By: Ben

I saw the lot, and am not really surprised about the final bid price. What really surprised me was mzm55's big $$ bid, jeez!

Most of the t206's looked trimmed, btw.

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Posted By: leon

I didn't say that. The last 2 I bought were from a valued board member a year or so ago (with your same first name and major ebayer) that didn't meet reserve. I paid well under $1500 for it and the other I bought from Scott B for about $1600 when I bought the AWA from him....another one I bought for $200 (several years ago) and another I bought for around $1500....only the last one I don't remember the exact details on.....I stand behind my thoughts on values...The issue, as always, is as much demand as supply. The only one I know that would think about the full set is Mark M...and I think his is complete....lmk if you want to sell the back that I don't have....but I would rather you put it on ebay take care

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Posted By: dstudeba

Congrats on the win. I thought the back that Leon doesn't have was the wildcard of the lot in case it is unique.

I saw the auction a while ago.

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Posted By: leon

The only unique back that I and the resident expert Mark Macrae, are aware of, is the AWA back.....which currently resides in my personal collection....and I paid up for it.....

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Posted By: Josh

That is amazing how many people offered the guy from $200-$1000 for the lot to end it early. I thought people on this forum were fair. They were trying to make a killing and make about 12,000 grand in profit. Thats ashame that people try to take advantage of the seller. Good for him to get his $12,000. The seller must be laughing his ass off becuz the high bidder probably ended up offering $750 for the lot! HAHA

If someone would had offered the guy 6,000 grand i'm sure he would have accepted and you still would have saved 6,000 grand. Remember that nextime!

Peace Out

Josh H.

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Posted By: Ben

"If someone would had offered the guy 6,000 grand i'm sure he would have accepted and you still would have saved 6,000 grand. Remember that nextime!"

The cards were consigned to the seller, so I dont think the auction would have been ended early for any price. But I agree with you, those offers to end early were rediculous....disgraceful if you ask me.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...how many offers the seller had to end the auction early. That was my first tip that there were a lot of people that were aware of the value of these cards.

To me, I am still shocked that "mini piedmont cards" listed in a "baseball cards"/"other" category drew enough attention to score over $12K here. That is remarkable to me.

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Posted By: quan

...and ended for a fair amount, doesn't matter what category it's in, almost 1000 views.

I can't believe the seller turned down $750 via paypal IMMEDIATELY, I would not have been as wise.

And Zach, to quote Dave Chappelle..."I'm RICH, biatch!!!!"

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

I'll be honest - I had contacted a purchaser for the AWH's last night so I knew I could flip them quickly if i won the lot - I bid $9,600 with 7 seconds left and immediately got a "bid more than $11,600" notification!

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Posted By: Sean

I always like to search by backs, there are a few cards that people assume that Piedmont, Old Mill & Sweet Caporal are like the Topps brand and don't list T206 anywhere. I have only found common cards but I got a nice little group of "Peidmont" cards for $4.99 once.

I did see the auction but it was already over $2,000 and to quote my wife, "we're not rich!"

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Posted By: Martin Neal

I drove down to Lynchburg to look at the cards last weekend and to help determine my bid. I had noticed from the scan that the paper loss on the backs looked to me as being something that had just happened recently. I wanted to make sure that there were not any more t206s that could meet the fate that these did (removal from an album) At that point, he had already had 5 or 6 offers to end it early so I did not even suggest it to him. The seller, Richard Mundy, had the cards on consignment and I doubt very seriously he would have ended the auction early at any price. Commendable.
The t206s were worth around $2500.00 and they were not trimmed although several were a little short. Unfortunately, I couldn't ask the board what the caramels were worth so I figured about them at about $500.00 per card. Consequently, My bid at the last second was just about 1/3 of the final price.
One thing I noticed about the Sieber card is that it has a ghost print on the back (or maybe the sheet was laid on top of another wet sheet}. If I remember correctly, the wording was reversed.
I called Richard after the auction and the place was in an uproar. I had told him that the auction would probably end in the mid to upper two thousands and he thought that it might end in the mid teens. So to say the least, he was very excited.
By the way, this afternoon he told me how the cards came to be damaged. The original owner had died recently and his son is the one who consigned them. The day after the gentleman died, the family went to his home. There on the kitchen table lay the album and all the removed cards. I hope I can peruse my old cards on my final day.

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Posted By: Glenn

I was watching this lot, but I'd prefer not to reveal how I found it.

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Posted By: Martin Neal

I am taking Piedmont off my favorite watch list!!!!!

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Posted By: robfouch

I found the auction just a few hours after it was listed and have to admit that I was one of the ones who asked him to end it early. I didn't, however, try to lowball. Not exactly anyway. I asked if would be willing to do a buy-it-now and what price he'd take. As soon as he refused, I knew that auction would be found by others and the prices would go way out my league.

Used to be that I would never ask a seller to end early. But I've had so many auctions I was watching suddenly "end because of an error in the listing" that I've gotten frustrated and have given in. There's too much competition out there willing to do it. And I simply can't afford to pay full price for a big group of T206s (which is what I collect). I have to look for mismarked listings and such to even get anything.

To be honest, I'm somewhat of a newbie to vintage cards and didn't know what the non-t206s were. I figured if he were willing to accept an offer, I'd try and research what they were and adjust my offer accordingly. When he refused, I didn't bother. Imagine my surprise when I saw the final price. Sheesh.

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Posted By: Josh K.

"I thought people on this forum were fair."

This comment was made above and was directed toward the many offers to end the auction early for very low amounts. My only comment is what leads you to believe that the offers were from board members? I mean, am I incorrect in assuming that there might actually be others out there who collect vintage cards and yet dont frequent this board?

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Posted By: howard

What's the big deal about making lowball offers? There was a recent post asking members about their best trades and another about their biggest bargains on EBAY. Several members told of how they knowingly got by far the better end of this or that deal. Why is this lot any different? It is not the responsibility of the buyer to protect the interests of the seller and as long as laws are not broken all is fair.

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Posted By: dennis

it just goes to show again people who make offers to end auctions early lowball the seller. if the seller is dumb enough he will accept. this guy was not and he got some nice $$$ for the lot. sellers take heed offers to end auctions early are no good.

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Posted By: J Levine

I saw it and put one of the first really little bids on it to keep track of it...I also asked the seller to end early but I asked "what price would you be willing to end it early at"...soon after were the lowball requests(which I see nothing wrong with...this is a competitive marketplace). I think the seller did a wise thing and said, lets see where it ends. I also feel the price is actually fair. The breakup value will probably be right around (read as within 1000 bucks) of the final price.

Joshua

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Posted By: jpaol99

I admit I put in a "lowball" offer of 1000. It was less than two hours after the auction started. I would have offered more if I had more. Just had to give it a try and don't really feel "shameful" or "guilty" about it.



Justin

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Posted By: warshawlaw

This auction, like the N167s recently sold, was way cool because it was an unsuspecting seller who brought previously undiscovered materials into the market. I'd never have guessed as to the value of those cards; I guess they are so rare that they fell below my radar screen. Don't worry about Dave's financial health on this deal. Whatever Dave paid on them this week, he will be able to get more next week and even more next month. In this market, with rare vintage cards, a seller can afford to wait for his price.

As far as offers, endings, etc. go, I really have to laugh at this point at anyone who thinks that vintage card collecting is anything other than a rabid free market where lots of money changes hands at a fast and furious pace, where anything goes as long as it is legal, and where you have to have a major bankroll to piss in the tall weeds with the big dogs. I think recently Leon observed (quite accurately) that to a guy who makes thousands of dollars an hour day in and day out, paying killer prices for cards is not an issue. More and more of those kinds of guys are into this hobby. Given that level of competition for vintage cards, I think there are an increasing number of desperate buyers who will try whatever they can think of to get hold of rare cards in auctions like these before the "big dogs" gobble them up. People do funny things when money is involved.

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Posted By: david levin

Lot of talk about these offers to end the auction early. I called Richard on the 28th which is when I found the auction, and congratulated him on not ending it early and advised him he was probably in for a shock, and encouraged him not to end it. Had I got to him early, before the other lowball offers, I might have offered $8,000, but I doubt he would have accepted it.

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Posted By: Joey Settle

I was part of a small group who bid under the bigred_cards ID. I was shocked to see those cards listed that way. Does anyone think selling the E222's separatley could have brought out some of the bigger guns? Just goes to show that deals are still out there if you know where to look. We were just unsure of what to bid because we were mostly looking at selling the E222's and keeping the T206's. We were hoping that we had it with 13 seconds left but we weren't suprised we lost out, just suprised about the final price. That said, nice cards and kudos to the consigner. BTW - we did not make the seller and offer to end the auction early.

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Posted By: Mark Rios

I wonder what Dave's mark-up is going to be on this one.....

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Posted By: David Levin

Here they are:



All four have different backs.

Thanks for looking


Dave

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Posted By: HAW

Wow, nice little collecton, especially with the different backs.

I guess I look at making offers to end auctions such as this early a little differently than most. The seller obviously did not know what he had for sale. To try and buy them for 10 cents on the dollar is wrong in my opinion. I guess that it is the old "do unto others..." saying. It would be one thing if he was a dealer or really knew what he had, but I do not think that it is ethical to try and take advantage of someone's lack of knowledge.

Not looking to start a war. Just my two cents.

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Posted By: Zach Rice

David-those look great ! Where they shipped overnight or did you go pick them up ?

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Posted By: dave's vintage baseball cards

He sent them overnight.

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Posted By: Charlie

WOW!!! With a price like that how much could someone get for a nice Weimer Ghost back?

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Posted By: T206Collector

Joey,
In my opinion, by bidding over $1,000 so far in advance of the auction close, all you did was lure other prospective bidders to a poorly listed auction. I am sure that the auction would have ended the same way, but in the future, I would adhere to a fundamental principle of ebay bidding -- any bids made earlier than 20 seconds before the close of the auction only hurts your chances of winning at the price you want to pay.
Paul (aka T206 Collector)

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Posted By: Richard

Thank you gentlemen for your generous bidding and informative comments regarding the cards recently purchased from me on ebay. While it's true I didn't know exactly what I had to sell I felt I had to protect my seller and get the best price for him (an auction process is terribly democratic).
While the seller IS looking for more AWH cards from his father we will be listing some other items he has - mostly autograph books . We have one with some 1936 Goudy cards in it (along with a few signatures including Lou Gehrig). A book with Dizzy Dean in it, and one we just listed tonight with over 100 autographs from the 30s and 40s - most notably both Dimaggios, Ted Williams, Joe mcCarthy, Bill Dickey, LEfty Gomez just to mention a few. They're listed at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8778850634&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 and we welcome any comments and suggestions.
Thanks again for your enlightenment - I enjoyed every one.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Richard. Congrats on the sales. As mentioned above, I was one of the potential bidders on the lot that included the AWH's. That being said, I checked out your auction you linked to the website above. Although I don't normally like to make suggestions, your starting bid on the lot you put up is probably about $1500-2000 to high. Unless I missed a signature when I scrolled though your auction, I seriously doubt the lot will bring more than $1000-1200. Maybe other's won't agree but I used to be a pretty series autograph collector and I'm sure I haven't lost touch with prices that much! Foxx is about the best in the group with a value, if authenticated, of probably somehwere around 500. Moe Berg and Dimaggio maybe $200/ea and Williams at $125. Just a friendly suggeston.

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Posted By: VA-Bay

We based the price on an offer already received for $3,000 but the owner decided to let the auction process (as in the cards) determine its worth. You may be right (we certainly aren't experts).
I'm just hoping the owner finds some more AWH cards! (he is looking)...