Bid Cancelled after Winning - What Happened Here?

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Posted By: Josh K.

So, anyone care to guess what the F*&% happened to my bid on this auction. If you look at the bidding history, my winning bid of 171.09 was cancelled a second after the auction ended. The winning bidder (who has contacted me) informed me that he was outbid by me in the last seconds, but then, was notified that he had won b/c my bid was cancelled. The seller has not responded to my email to provide a reason for cancelling my bid. Has this ever happened to anyone?

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=8742610375

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

Got a link?

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Posted By: Josh K.

Sorry, link now provided above.

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

Hmmm...I wonder if the seller was trying to cancel all the bids before the auction ended and just didn't get it done.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

I think he must have been trying to cancel the auction and the other guy's snipe somehow got through?

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Posted By: Charlie O'Neal

Since bidders are not allowed to retract bids if the auction is under 12 hours that's really weird. Hopefully Something can be worked out between the seller and the bidders.

Have you ever delt with the seller before? My only explanation is that the seller might have you blocked and it took your bid at first and then noticed that you were blocked so it was cancelled. (That's a great big streach though.)

I am pretty sure the seller can't reject bids in the closing minutes. I am postive that they can't end the auction eary in the final minutes.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Charlie, I have never dealt with this seller before. In fact, I had a $99 bid placed on the card since the day it was listed (I did this to get rid of the BIN). I then set a snipe bid for significantly more.

The seller was also very helpful earlier in the week responding to my emails requesting scans of the rejected flip (so I could be sure that the reason for the rejection was actually due to trimming).

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Maybe the guy read your analysis of Kyle's situation and decided he didn't want to deal with you. (Just kidding)

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

I can almost guarantee you that this guy was trying to cancel ALL the bids before the auction ended because he was having sellers remorse. He probably wasn't expecting a snipe.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Peter, thats funny - and dont think the thought didnt cross my mind

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Could you imagine having a program available that cancels snipe bids at the end of the auction... boy that would be worth something...

That was a really odd cancellation. I'd check with the seller and see what the heck happened.

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Posted By: Steve

That is very odd.

Your bid was cancelled 1 sec after the auction ended.

Steve

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Posted By: Josh K.

Seller will not respond. I actually thought that he ended the auction early and sold the card to the "winning bidder". But, then I noticed the timing of the cancellation. I also rec'd an email from the winner who lurks on the board and recognized my ebay id. He told me that my snipe topped his high bid and then got notice that he won b/c my bid was cancelled. He was actually concerned that I had cancelled the bid b/c I determined s/t was wrong with the card and didnt want to get scammed if that was the case.

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Posted By: Joann

Why would the seller want to sell it for less? B/c he didn't get the $99 bid cancelled in time? And seller's remorse in the last 10 seconds, or whatever, doesn't make sense to me.

I had it figured that the buyer was a buddy of his or something, until you wrote the part about him emailing you.

Actually, I think if seller had read the "Kyle thread" he would have been less likely to mess w/that bid, not more! Someone should email him a link to that one. Hmmmmm...

And if the auction is the offer... and the high bid at end (even by one second) is acceptance, and bid amount is consideration... here we go again. Seriously - there is warning and writing when you get to the Confirm Bid page that you are entering into a legal K. That seems to suggest that the buyer is the offeree and the seller the offeror. Yes - I know I know - the amount is small. But still, maybe if you trot out some of the thinking, you might get some traction on getting your bid honored.

JMHO. And way out of my league, I recognize.

J

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Posted By: Richard

Josh - the seller must know that you should not be buying any more cards.

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Posted By: Charles E. Moore

I notice that the minimum was $99.99. Your $99 should not have been accepted as it was .99 short. Though it seems illogical, I'd bet that the "computer" kicked you out when it reconciled the final bids.

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Posted By: Steve

Charles

The bid that was cancelled was for 171. and change.

Cancelled: US $171.09
Explanation: wrong starting bid.

Steve

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Posted By: Josh K.

Thanks Steve

Charles - I was a tad impercise in my post above. My initial bid was for the minimum bid of 99.99. My snipe which was cancelled was for 171.09 (actually more than this, but this was the amount that would have been the high bid had it not been cancelled).

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Posted By: Brad Green

Since the seller hasn't offered any explanation, you should report this to eBay and see if they can reconcile this.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Ebay is ever so helpful. Here is the response that I received:

"I understand your concern, and I am sorry for any frustration this
matter has caused you. Please understand that all eBay members have the
right to choose their trading partners. Just as a Buyer has the option
of choosing trading partners by choosing which auctions to bid on, a
Seller also has the option of choosing trading partners by rejecting or
accepting bids. Because of this, Sellers may cancel bids at their
discretion. I understand the inconvenience this may cause you, and I do
sympathize."

Its funny that "all ebay members have the right to choose their trading partners" but that it is a violation to actually end an auction to sell to someone offline. The bottom line is, if they are getting their fees, they just dont care.

Ebay went on to say:

"We are concerned about violations on the site and have thoroughly
investigated your report. In accordance with our site policies, I have
found that there is not enough evidence to show that a violation has
taken place. I understand your concern about this situation, and can
reopen the investigation if any additional information can be provided."

Complete BS.

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Posted By: Joann

Do you think it was 'okay' because at 1 second after the auction there was some presumption that the cancel was initiated while the auction was still live? I don't know the rules about cancelling bids during an auction, but imagine they are pretty liberal.

Cancelling post-auction is different though. People make subsequent decisions based on auction results - to not buy something else, or do/not do something. So it seems to me there would be narrow restrictions on post auction bid cancellations.

Which brings me back to... was this one considered to have been initiated during the auction? Or is only one second later considered 'soon enough'? And if so, what is the limit on soon enough? Or is it really open season on cancelling bids after an auction ends?


Joann

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Does choosing ebay partners mean we (as a buyer) can cancel a bid after the auction is over? Isn't that called reneging? I always thought that placing a winning bid constitutes a contract between the buyer and seller. Well, maybe not in the ebay world. I suppose you could try to prove this out:

1) set up an auction.
2) have someone place a bid on the item on the day the auction goes active.
3) have that person place a snipe bid on the item for the close of the auction.
4) have someone else bid on the auction.
5) at the last second ban the initial bidder from bidding on your auction and see if the same thing happens to the snipe bid.

If the same thing happens then you'll probably be able to figure out what happended to you. You might even get ebay to change their software so sellers can't do this way anymore (if this is in fact is what happened).

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Posted By: DJ

Nothing annoys me more than the standard reply. When I have had any issues in the past, I went straight to eBay Live. You get to actually talk to a human being who may or may not be able to help. It's helped in the past on a couple of issues regarding sales. This is an interesting topic and it sucks that this seller doesn't reply. IMO, silence usually means foul play. I'd give him a phone call if I were you.

DJ

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Posted By: Steve

I am a lil confused here as this action was taken after the auction ended. (or so it seems) Not saying this happened but...........say a card is 'worth' 1000 dollars and the top bid is 200.00. well I cancel the top bid and sell to my shill for 99.00. Therebye not losing the item.

I am not saying this happened here.

Just a thought.

Steve

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Posted By: Josh K.

Hey Steve,

I dont think the winner was a shill - the seller just wasnt able to cancel his bid. The winner is a lurker on the board.

Judge - you are correct. If the buyer backed out, I guarantee ebay would be all over them.

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Posted By: Jeff

I am probably wrong on this, but the seller probably thought if he cancelled your bid at the end he would not have to sell it. He didnt know that almost all old card collectors on ebay bid at the end of the auctions. Looks like he got burned, if that was the intent.

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Posted By: Steve

I was speaking in a hypothetical.

It is possible that the seller did not like what looked like the ending price and cancelled that bid. By doing so he lost out all the more.

Im still confused as to how the computer allowed a cancellation after the auction ended.

Steve

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Posted By: Brian Daniels

safe harbor......yet??

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Posted By: Josh K.

I wrote ebay's dispute center. Got the response above.

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Posted By: andy becker

i have never had a corespondence with ebay that did not use two words....."concern and frustration".
people actually get paid to insert that crap.
sorry to hear about your problems josh, the whole thing sux.