PSA mislabeled this card? NO WAY!

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Posted By: dan mckee

This is PATHETIC! A professional grading company making a $1000 mistake on a label. I don't care what you grading CULT members say, grading is a JOKE! And PSA is at the top of the JOKE list.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5227880159>




Edited for George.

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Posted By: will watson

don't hold back, tell us how you really feel!

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Posted By: Josh K.

Ive bought a lot of stuff from yorktown and generally think they are a good/honest seller. I dont know much about the t205s, but I take it that the "no stray line" card is common and not worth much. If correct, it seems to me that in this particular case, Yorktown also has some responsibility for this card selling for more than its worth. While they have noted the mistake in the listing, the title states that it is the "stray line" variety. This has undoubtably caused people to bid without reading the rest of the listing and is misleading to say the least.

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Posted By: dan mckee

They just added to the description. For some reason, Yorktown never scans reverses. Anyway, thanks to Art Martinea, I retracted my bid. And Will, if you knew me, you would know that is exactly what I do, call it how I see it w/o holding back. And I back whatever I say. That is why Doug Allen told Joe Orlando I would not be going away easily when PSA ripped me off. I would have flown out to California a hundred times for court, it was principle at that point!

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Posted By: Josh K.

Yes, they make the correction in the description. But it should have been made in the title or the auction should have been cancelled and relisted. The bidding clearly reflects that the bidders didnt read the description and believe they are bidding on the stray line variety.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Sorry, but they don't improve up close and personal, either. I've bought so FEW PSA graded cards, and such a large % of them were mislabled, misgraded--what a MESS!!!

Sorry, just letting off steam...

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Dan,

I can't believe you don't think that PSA wont rectify this situation. Remember, they'll do as they have in the past:

• Get the registry number from the holder from the ebay picture
  
• Go into their computer data base and delete it
  

Presto, the card never existed nor did they make the mistake!

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Posted By: Damian Anderson

stray line of type variation? What it is a result of and what kind of premium are we talking here?

Damian

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Posted By: George H. Counter

"...is run by a complete spineless idiot! JOE ORLANDO."

Leon, moderator dude... This is the kind of post that keeps more lurkers from actively joining net54 discussions.
Personal attacks are way off topic, so my suggestion would be to delete that part of the message and keep the PSA mislabeling discussion alive.

Dan, I think everybody knows your problems with PSA, but please keep your agenda and personal attacks privately.

This time is Joe Orlando, who'll be next in line?


GHC

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Posted By: DJ

C'mon, that's why some of us read!

Did you miss the Broadway Rick thread?

I think the rule is you can't slander your fellow Board Member.

DJ

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Posted By: leon

As long as you put your name by your remarks, and stand behind them, you can say just about whatever you want to...to a certain point. Joe Orlando is a public figure and public figures take heat sometimes. As far as lurkers not posting...that's ok too. I don't really care to grow this site...just maintain what we have by the family we have made here....regards


edited for spelling

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Posted By: John

George;

I don’t think Dan has an agenda. He just has strong feelings about grading companies in general, rightfully so IMO.

The whole argument behind the use of grading companies vs. the past of taking a dealer/sellers word on grading. Was that there are to many inconsistencies with the old way, and no way of protecting yourself.

So presto we invent the experts over night to protect us. If you are a standards company, which is what these companies claim to be then you cant make mistakes like this ever. Imagine if UL made mistakes testing electrical devices and shoved them out the door. Am I comparing Underwriters Laboratories to PSA by no means, but when you claim to be the authority on things it helps if you actually do know what the hell you’re doing.

Man I miss raw cards, reasonable prices and having to educate yourself on what your buying vs. depending on someone else to do it for you!

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Posted By: leon

Dan's comments are ON topic to the thread....

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Posted By: George H. Counter

"...Personal attacks are way off topic"

Leon, please read my message again.

Again, I was just making a suggestion.
You are the moderator and you do whatever you think it's best for the community.

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Posted By: David Vargha

Dan -- I can't say that I agree that grading is a "joke", but you'd get no argument from me about Mister Orlando.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: leon

I don't know Joe O so can't state anything about him. I do know Dan though and can say he's a pretty good guy. I try not to censor and take things on a case by case basis, as history will show. Personal attacks are, for the most part, off topic, so you are correct about that. This one stays and Joe can come defend himself if he wants to. regards

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Posted By: owner of the Dan Kottles card collection ~

would you like a picture of Joe you have never seen before?

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Posted By: dan mckee

George, I respect your opinion and I don't blast as much as I used too as I am only out $1800 legal fees and travel and a 1 week vacation. I blasted Joe alot more when I was out the $5K. Sorry but I have no respect for the guy and yes, he is more than welcome to come on and defend himself. After he received the verdict of the 2nd and final trial, he called me and stated "no hard feelings, PSA deals with alot of strange people but I saw you were professional" Well that is great but, if that was truly the case, then he wouldn't have appealed the small claims verdict because I was just as professional then as well.

I do not go hunting for PSA mistakes but when I see 1 that can cost a buyer $1000, then I make it known. The Moran card w/o stray is a $30 card and the stray variation in this shape is about $1000.

I would also like to state that by coming on this board, I abide by the rules and anything Leon deletes of mine will be acceptable by me. His call is my vote as well and I will accept his rule always.

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Posted By: dan mckee

And Brian, I really have no desire to see Joe naked butthanks anyway.

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Posted By: leon

I am in the middle of a deal with them and they seem like good guys to me. They also ended the auction that started this thread....regards

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Posted By: George H. Counter

Dan, thanks for deleting the last part of your message. I think it was the best way to go.
I still think many people don't end up writting here because of personal fights.
Even if Leon doesn't think that growing the community is important, I for one would like to see more people join and share their knowledge.

Sorry if my suggestion upset any fellow board users.
It was only a point of view and as a user of the board (Lurker or Poster)I thought I was entitled to post it.


GHC

Disclaimer:

I don't know Joe Orlando nor do I have ever made biz with PSA.
I think PSA sucks as well as every grading company out there.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Personally, I don't like the decision Dan made to delete the Joe Orlando comments. Reeks too much of censorship and cowtowing to keep from hurting people's feelings. As Leon said, Orlando is a public figure and Dan is willing to stand behind his statements.

George, I don't know you, so I may be wrong about this, but if you are so sensative as to be offended by someone posting comments and feelings about a public figure, than maybe public forums aren't the place for you to be. I guess the next time we have a discussion about a ball player, you'll be asking that any negative opinion about said ball player be removed since that too would be considered a personal attack by you.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: dan mckee

I thought hard about it Jay but since I too didn't know George, I didn't want to shrug away a possibly new fellow with my negative statements. I welcome growth but am not craving it, this board has a nice size as it stands as Leon said. So, I rarely do that and I do stand behind everything I say, but felt I had offended George and that made my decision. Dan.

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Posted By: DJ

I'm kind of on Jay on this one. If you have the attitude that: "I'm not going to write this because it might offend one reader", than this Board will change. So if someone says "Rafael Palmeiro is a cheating liar" and I'm offended by that, the statement should be changed to please me?

As far as this statement: "I still think many people don't end up writing here because of personal fights"...I don't believe that to be true at all.

This Forum is huge, is the very best Forum around and there's little in the way of personal attacks. When there is an attack, there's justice (mostly bad dealers and ethical issues) and a little cat fighting is healthy.

The person that should be offended in this thread should be Joe, not George. We all know Joe is capable of defending himself but he chooses not to take part in this Forum. He could come to the Board and explain the "stray-line mistake" but chooses to be silent. As far as I'm concerned, Joe is a public figure here and if someone wants to vent, let it be.

DJ

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Posted By: leon

I just wrote 3 paragraphs saying exactly what you just said and deleted it.....as I don't feel like continuing to justify my actions. If you have been around this board long enough, lurking or posting, then you know my thoughts. Of course I want the board to grow......but you said it for me....thanks

btw everyone is entitled to their opinion on this board....even if it's putting me in a bad light...let's hear it...

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Posted By: G. H. Counter

I was not offended by Dan's comments.
As some of you already said, Joe Orlando should be the one offended, not me.
I simply posted my opinion on naming names and personal fights.

Dan, feel free to re-edit your original message.
It looks like I'm the one mistaken on board usage.
And since this Orlando guy is not a welcomed person on this board, I should keep my mouth shut and keep reading.


Note: Thanks to those who emailed me privately to explain certain things on Joe Orlando, PSA and net54 board politics pros and cons... and yes, I mainly collect T215's. (None graded and never will be)

GHC

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Posted By: dan mckee

No sweat George, I will take the heat for this one. But I must disagree with what you said, Joe is very welcome on this board. I would gladly accept him on and I am sure most will as well. T215's that will never be slabbed, hey, you are ok by me George. Dan.

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Posted By: leon

including Joe Orlando is welcome on this board......Obviously I wouldn't blame him for not coming on it but he is certainly welcome to.