How much money is out there?

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Posted By: Paul

The Robert Edwards Auction brings back to mind a question that I've been wondering about for awhile. How many people out there have the resources and the willingness to spend, say, $5,000 on one lot of vintage baseball cards? And to do this not once in a lifetime, but several times a year?

I mean this question very seriously. The percentage of people with that kind of discretionary income is very small. Combine that with the percentage of people with a serious interest in vintage cards, and the number is even smaller. Yet, in auction after auction held by REA, Mastro, Lew Lipset and a few others, dozens if not hundreds of lots of vintage cards are sold for many thousands of dollars each.

The membership of this board collectively probably knows every serious vintage card collector in the country. I would be very interested to hear your estimates of roughly how many folks there are out there spending this kind of cash on vintage cards. I am absolutely not asking for information about anyone's personal finances. I'm just interested in the overall state of the market. Maybe a different way of asking my question is this: How large is the potential universe of bidders on vintage card lots in the 5K plus range?

Thanks.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

It's likely that a number of people are investing in sports memorabilia, which means they are putting more than collecting money into an auction. My guess is that a number of investers spend their money in the big auctions and skip eBay.

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Posted By: ted

To keep it short....i'm sure some people use cards instead of stock market, i'm sure a few use loans and mortgages and such....and i'm sure a few are fiscal in other aspects of their life to leave them extra funds for big purchases. That being said, you'd be amazed at how much liquid is around this country. Those people, take olberman or candyman, are wealthy for whatever reason and can drop 200k and not blink. Furthermore, i'm sure some people lake the financial prudence necessary to sustain a healthy lifestyle and at the same time, collect something they love. In otherwords, i'm sure some of you out there buy it b/c you love it..not b/c you can afford it...

BlackSoxFan

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Posted By: Brian Lindholme

That limit has been officially declared by my wife

Seems the 8 yr old minivan needs brakes and the sofa is sagging...kid just got braces and the dog got neutered.

Sounds like a bad country and western song !!!

I'd rather buy a few more Fan Craze cards and finish off my T205 set but I don't want the song to be D-I-V-O-R-C-E

I think this is a good topic, but I also know that ALL grown-up hobbies get expensive. What about my neighbor with the new truck to pull his new boat who is building a bigger garage for the RV Bus ? I'm thinking "This guy is NUTS...why he doesn't just buy some graded Cobbs or Wagners and stop fooling around ??? hahahaha

Take care,
Brian L.

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Posted By: JimB

That is a very interesting question. Apparently there are a lot of them. But other than the big auction houses, we don't know if it is a thousand people winning one or two lots each or a much smaller number who win multiple lots. Most likely some combination of the two.
JimB

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Posted By: Joe_G.

For every collector who bids big on a lot, there is a seller (who is also likely a collector) who now has big money to do as he/she pleases. In some cases the seller is getting out of the hobby but there is more than enough new blood to take his/her place with disposable funds.

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Posted By: DJ

That is an interesting question.

I for one am a collector true to heart, like you guys. I did purchase two separate collections a year ago that would set me back twice the paid amount today and I basically purchased the collections for a handful of cards. I was able to sell off the rest for a small profit and have those kept cards pay for themselves.

I have met several 'new' collectors who got into the buying market because it is the hot thing to do now as they are unhappy with the current state of the Stock market. Purchasing a collection for four figures is kind of like the tech wave where people were purchasing stock that they knew nothing about but noticed they were increasing on a daily fashion. Are vintage pre-war trading cards in the same family as 'beanie babies'? Do I need to compare Charlie Buffington to 'Tabasco the Bull'?

I used to purchase around a dozen decent cards a month for my collection and that is now down to maybe 2-3. I see $60 cards selling for $200 and $300 cards selling for $600 and I haven't been able to add an OJ in three months where I would pick up at least two a month. It's good for my private collection now (the soaring values), but I'm having trouble making sense of the current market...my card family 'ain't growing'. While us VBC members ogle, enjoy and love our cards (and the history behind the players on the cards), a rich wig who has no idea what a W514 is or a T217 is high bidder on something he knows nothing about.

As far as REA, I've given up. 0-3.

DJ

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Posted By: Rob

I have that one - the one with the red feet. Is it worth anything? Regardless, it's a keepsake of sentimental value.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

There is a core of collectors out there (like me) who work extra hours to generate extra income to use on cards. Thankfully, business is good enough right now that I don't have to sell off cards to finance my habit.

There are many collectors/dealers who primarily buy for themselves but who grab bargains where they can be found and try to sell those cards, or who hold them for later use as trade bait and/or rainy day sales.

There are some collectors who are also sold on the idea of cards as investments. They not only buy what they collect, they buy what they think will go up in price, meaning that the current pricing is not an issue to them. Who among us would not have happily paid twice the then-market price on caramel cards in 2002 knowing what we know now? I know that around my house lately I am not getting any **** about buying cards instead of putting the $$ into an "investment" like stocks (which have always struck me as about as intelligent an investment as betting on black in roulette, but I digress).

There are some investors, but I suspect that number is far, far less than many think. There simply hasn't been the press coverage like there was 15 years ago that propelled casual people into the market.

Finally, the items that are selling big are really tough to find. All it takes is a half-dozen serious collectors to skyrocket an auction when they all want the items in question.

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Posted By: dan mckee

There are several serious, longtime and some new collectors that are not "posting" to this board that can spend $5000 at lunch 3 times a week and not have it phase them.

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Posted By: Josh

Interesting topic, I too am amazed when I see these prices, but when it really comes down to it, 80-90%+ of these items being sold at Mastro, REA, etc. are rare investment quality items, and a $5K investment is really a small piece in the big picture of one's portfolio (assuming one has some sort of investment portfolio, whether it be as simple as a bank account to stocks/bonds to real estate, and I highly doubt the majority of the buyer don't have something together).

Two weeks ago I purchased a lot from the Mastro auction that I paid $4,700 including juice. Yesterday, I won a lot from REA that will run me $5,200. While the $10K layout may seem hefty, I think my $10K here will hold up as well if not better than if I had gone and poured in into say, 150 shares of Altria.
Obviously, not everyone has $10K just laying around burning a hole in their pocket, but this is money that I have essentially budgeted from my income specifically for these type purchases. I think there are a lot of other investor/collectors who think along the same lines, and these are the people who are laying out $5-10K.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

Josh reminds me of: "...I've got 20-20 vision, but only looking back."

I think most people who dump large sums into vintage cards are kidding themselves when they call it an "investment" - that's usually just rationalizing the fun they are having. Since many "investment type" cards have risen over the last few years, these so-called "investments" are making the collectors look mighty wise, but as Barry has pointed out, this hobby has had dips in the past and will have additional ones.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

you still have cards. When my enron stock tanked all I had left was a popcorn fart, which is nothing at all...

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Posted By: Texas Ted

Without sharing more information than is prudent, I got into cards as a way to diversify my investments. A few years back when the dot coms were flying and stocks seemed to be hitting new highs every day, I decided it could not last, and sold a bunch of stock to put into cards. While I did not expect them to earn huge dividends, I just did not want to have all of my eggs in the stock market basket.

Well it did not take long for the market to drop, and I have friends whose portfolios took hits of 50% or more. My cards have either maintained their values or gone up a little.

I have since taken many of those large lots and sets, and sold individual cards or smaller lots to make small profits. Since I am semi-retired, I have the time and energy to do that, and do not need to depend on the income to feed my family. All the dollars I get from sales net of expenses go right back into cards. As a result, my initial "diversification" has done much better than what it would have done in the market, and has been a whole lot more fun.

Now I guess I am a small time dealer, and would like to protest against some of the anti dealer sentiment and rants I have seen on the board. Dealers provide a service that helps your hobby. We in fact make a market for the cards you love. We bring the buyer and seller together and make a little for our efforts. If all sellers had the time, talent and desire to market their cards individually, they could realize the highest return for their cards. But most don't want to take all that time, and are willing to take something less to get their money immediately without a lot of work. That allows me to do all the scanning, listing, mailing, record keeping and dealing with the occasional moron, non paying bidder and check bouncer to supply the cards y'all like to collect. True, some dealers are jerks and money grubbers and there are the frauds and shysters out there too. But many "dealers" are not bad people.

Thanks for letting me rant.

Texas Ted
Starting my third attempt at a second childhood.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I had a friend whose all tech portfolio peaked at $2.1 million during the boom. He resisted the temptation to diversify or cash out and today hasn't got a pot to pee in. I myself was forced to leave lots of money on the table because I could not talk my better half into selling off our tech holdings until well into the slide (actually, I surreptitously sold off half our holdings without telling her then got her permission; had I waited for her to pull the trigger nearly all of the profit would have evaporated instead of just about 50% of it).

Like I said, even if the cards tank (and over the last 30 years, they haven't dipped any worse than any other asset and have always rebounded), I still have my little works of art to enjoy.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

say GOLD

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Posted By: davidcycleback

As far as purchasing art and memorabilia for the long term, I am a firm beleiver in buying high quality items that you love and that you feel are well undervalued/underappreceated. High quality today is high quality ten years from now, and the worst thing that can happen is you end up with high quality items that you love.

Also, an investor in this type of stuff should avoid overpaying at the start because he beleives the material is sure to go up in the future. This is a common error for beginners investing in modern rookie cards or whatever. That PSA graded Goudey Babe Ruth isn't the investment. The investment is the amount of money you paid for that PSA Babe Ruth Goudey. Strangely, many beginning investors in memorabilia beleive that two people purchasing exactly equivelent items but at different prices are making the same investments because they both purchasing the same material.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

Some collectors with loads of discretionary income spend "whatever" it takes to get an item they want, then call it an "investment", when really they simply wanted the item and had the firepower to blow away the competition. It's possible the item will be re-sellable later at a higher value, but the thought process that went into the bidding probably wasn't as thorough as what David would go through. I know this to be true because I've spoken with such bidders and what it came down to was "I really needed it" or "I had to win SOMETHING" or "I fought it out with the other bidder and WON". Doesn't sound like strategic investment decisions.

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Posted By: John

I have to agree with Scott. Baseball cards are not an investment; it’s a great way to rationalize spending large sums of money. But if you were to sit down with a financial planner most would laugh at the idea.

This is not to say invest wisely in your collection, watch market prices try not to pay more than something is worth. Its also smart to leave yourself some room for positive returns when you buy items you may decide to sell in a few years.

The simple fact of the matter is cards are not the stock market they can be loosely compared sure any collectible can. Enron may have bombed true. But if you spent the $62,530.94 dollars you would have spent on the 2 cards bellow on Microsoft stock in August of 2000. In pretty sure you would not have sold the stock for $45,875.00 in May 2005 for a loss of $16,655.94 five years later.

Cards are cards buy them because you want them, can afford them etc. Sure there better than going to Vegas or the horse track. But don’t kid yourself that they are sound financial investing.

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Posted By: PASJD

I would be very surprised if many people buy cards strictly or even principally as an investment. I would suspect those who say it is more a rationale for spending discretionary income are correct. Not that it can't work out well sometimes, but I just don't believe that the prospect of appreciation (which would have to include serious study of current prices and expected trends, and would mean that one would only buy cards one thought were relatively underpriced) is what is motivating the vast majority of purchases.

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Posted By: RIchard Lloyd

I guess the way I look at it...BUY what you like as long as it is vintage and LONG TERM collecting will take care of its future worth... My cards are not for sale for another 20 years!!! buy the right stuff and TIME will take care of future worth... I am in it for the long RUN..Somethng "you always" here in buying stocks and bonds.. I NEVER think what a card cost today an 1 year from now what would it may be worth... to me..thats not the correct mind set for a COLLECTOR!!!

TIME WILL TAKE CARE OF THE CARDS WORTH...long term thinking!!

Best

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Posted By: David Vargha

I have always lost money on every card transaction I have ever made. They are a very bad investment.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Paul Arpasi

I'm a collector and a physician. I try to always get a good deal in order to make the card an investment piece. The gentleman above who said that the investment is the price you pay for the card not the card itself is correct, in my opinion. I find that the large auction houses offer rare opportunities to obtain stuff you infrequently see on ebay or at shows but, unfortunately, buyers premiums and hobby millionaires keep me from looking in those arenas for cards. I choose therefore to continuously improve my collection by selling cards, buying cards which are a deal and trading cards adding discretionary income as I see fit. The fun after all is not paying whatever price is necessary to get a card. The fun is in looking looking looking and finally finding an item in a deal and at a price which is rewarding.

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Posted By: ted

Hey Paul!!!! Glad you found your way to the forum

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Posted By: Dave H

I am in investment advisor at a national brokerage house. Cards are most certainly an investment, but like any investment, your return will come from your skills at obtaining good value for your purchase (good purchase price) combined with your skill at recognizing which 'cards' the market will assign the most growth in price to over your holding period.

the current problem is, while individual issues will do better than some in the near term, we are probably at or near a longer term peak in prices as we speak. card cycles are similar to stock cycles, this one mirroring the move to 'hard assets' starting in march 2000. cards are participating in the recent (5-6 year cycle) upturn in commodities/real estate/art markets as investors moved away from financial assets (stocks).

ironically, peaks usually occur when a large amount of unsophisticated participants enter a market (much of what you are all saying here in essense) and have no sense of true value, purchasing an assett simply because is has gone up and they expect it to go up again (greater fool theory).

stick to your hard pricing principals and let the cards pass if they are too expensive. inevitably, as always, the market will turn and you will be there to pick up the same cards on the cheap when the blood is in the streets.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

in summary: buy low, sell high?

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Posted By: Wesley

<the current problem is, while individual issues will do better than some in the near term, we are probably at or near a longer term peak in prices as we speak.>


Dave, Are you saying this is a good time to cash out of our sportscards?

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Posted By: John

Sorry I still don’t see cards as an investment anyone or I should be putting too much into. Collecting for the fun of it sure, its like buying a new boat, fancy car, stereo or new plasma TV. You most likely will not make money or get a return.

Also I doubt many of us will grow to attached to our IRA or stocks like we will or baseball cards. I was always under the impression that in the long run cards are really only worth what someone is willing to pay you for them. I don’t recall being able to work down the price of a share of stock. Or being offered only $40 for a share of a stock that was worth $60 because the buyer felt it was a fair price.

Not arguing that you can make money with cards sometime. But if I had my choice of $100k worth of Microsoft or $100k worth of baseball cards for my retirement. It’s a no brainier.

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Posted By: robert a

John.
You do have your choice. Sell your cards and buy microsoft.

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Posted By: Richard LLOYD

The folks who bought George C miller cards, Star candy cards,Uncle Jacks cards,...etc. in the 70's-80's are making a killing today!! GREAT INVESTMENT!! The "RIGHT" cards will increase if a collector takes the long term approach..
its years not days to look for a return!!
Best

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Posted By: leon

Ironic you would use the Microsoft vs cards analogy. About 5 years ago I sold 300 shares of Microsoft at $71.00 ea. With that exact money, and a tad bit more, I bought the Four Base Hits Kelly. The Microsoft is standing about $25 ea share now. The Four Base Hits has probably close to quadrupled in value.....yes, this is only one instance but I would say you might be careful when making these analogies. Who knows when, of if, the bottom will fall out on cards but they have done better than most stocks I've bought. regards

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Posted By: rob

Not to bring you down Leon, but microsoft split 2:1 in 2003, thus your sale is still certainly a good one, not as juicy as you have represented in your posting. I would rather have a vintage baseball card than a stock these days anyway, congrats on rolling over into some nice cards.

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Posted By: leon

I would have to go back and look at the timing of the split, and my cost basis to see how poorly it did, but regardless it has done mediocre at best. The weighted graph is still from $40'ish a share in '01 to $25'ish today. To me that's around a 30% loss....and the card has gone up 300%-400%....depending on the price it would bring.....take your pick.....regards

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Posted By: rob

much agreed, thats why i said the sale was still a good one. I was not disputing the clear excellence of swapping into a different investment, just trying to clarify some of the numbers...again, well done!

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Posted By: leon

Who'd a thought that many years ago that stocks vs cards would be a relative investment comparison. It seems that almost ANY pre-WWII card has done well over the last 5 years. Let's hope it continues. My thought's are that it will for the reasons pointed out in this thread. There are quite a few folks using cards as an investment vehicle and when you enjoy it at the same time it can make for exploding growth. Add to that technology and the availability it brings with it, of extremely rare cards (which is an oxymoron anyway), and away we go.....happy investing....uh er......I mean collecting....

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Posted By: dan mckee

John, I wish cards were not an investment. We would then have all collectors and no investors and no grading companies like it used to be, it was alot more fun then.

Dick, those of us who purchased the millers and others in the 70s and 80s did it for collecting, not investing. Dan.

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Posted By: Richard LLOYD

You are RIGHT Dan and thats my main point that collect the RIGHT cards and have fun and the value will take care of its self... LONG TERM thinking!! keeping the Miller..etc.. cards because you enjoyed them eventually took care of the $$$$ value.. so, the way that I look at it is buy the cool or odd ball cards and have fun with them and 10-20 years from now you will say gee- they are worth XXX% more and I had fun doing it.. The value will increase proportional to the rareity of the card today..which means.. providing you buy cards that are sought after!! they will still be sought after 10-20 years from now..

Best

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Posted By: Adam J. Moraine

I agree with Mr. Lloyd, 110%. I am 24, and collect nothing but vintage cards. Vintage cards/ memorabilia. Pre WW2- mid 1960's. My friends collect newer stuff (game used memorabilia cards). I believe that 20 years from now, my 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle (I know NOT vintage by boards standards, just using an example)will be worth a lot more money than a card of A-ROD with a little piece of game used jersey attached to it.

Best Regards,

Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: jay behrens

On a percentage basis, I wouldn't rank The George Miller cards as one of the best. I remember around 1985 paying $200 for a really nice common. At the same time, I was paying less than $10 for NM t206s. Also, commons have far outperformed HOFers on a percentage basis.

In the 80s, I did a lot business as a consultant building collections as an investment. My first piece of advice I gave to them was to buy things that they had some connection to such as a favorite player, team, etc. That way, when the market gets soft or bottoms out, you still have something that makes you feel good when you look at it.

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: calvindog

As someone who spends 6 figures a year on cards, I can tell you that this 'hobby' is hardly thought of as an investment. Josh, Altria is a good buy right now and unlike T206 prices, is not at a peak. While I certainly agree that the stock market is hardly a place for prudent investing over the past 5 years, why not compare card collecting to the real esate boom instead of comparing it to the price of JDSU? I rationalize my ridiculous outlays by knowing that, at worst, I may only recoup 90% of what I spend should I sell in the next couple of years. As for the future, I'd like to think that this commodity will not become hit the skids. The reason why people like us ultimately cannot view card collecting as an investment solely is that we are in love with these precious bits of cardboard and the clear thinking required to treat them as strictly investments is simply not there.

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Posted By: richard lloyd

And "why I believe" the reason why prices will never hit the skeds is because there will always be "COLLECTORS" looking for these wonderfull piecies of cardboard and if you think it is tough to find these "HIGH SOUGHT" cards today..just think how tough it will become 10-20 years from now to find them..
ATTRITON!!!!!

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Posted By: Bill Stone

I wasn't sure whether to post this under this heading or the T210 thread but either would fit my thoughts . I have been attempting to collect the players on the Frankfort baseball team in the Blue Grass League--T210 Series 6. In the past year I have acquired one from a fellow board member and secured scans of all but 2 of the total of 8 cards in that series( thanks to the assistance of other board members). While I would pay dearly to acquire the remainder of the set(the money is out there) it is really to include them in my research for a history of the team and then to eventually donate them to the City of Frankfort,Kentucky museum. For me,the pleasure of owing them really is in sharing their history with others. Is there a museum/library that houses a collection of baseball cards ----that is open to the public to view?

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Posted By: jay behrens

If you do a search on the Burdick collection on this site, you get a lot of pertinent information regarding museums and their views and how they handle baseball cards donated to them.

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: richard lloyd

baseball hall of fame has many on the 2nd floor...

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

*

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Posted By: John

Leon I simply used Microsoft as a recognizable name vs. many of the stocks of companies you could have bought in 2000. Stocks aren’t the only things you can invest in IRA’s, real estate etc.

There’s no doubt Leon has done well. But I’m sure Even he would have to admit not everyone does as well as he did. Are there other “Four Base Hits” Kelly cards I can invest in? Seeing as I believe he has the only one around it seems like a very limited investment opportunity for a guy like me.

My point is not everyone can invest or is buying one-of-a-kind cards. For every guy like Leon there are 20 guys buying $30,000 1952 Topps Mantle’s and game used goods. Baseball card prices are also subjective and don’t really have a true set market value. Plus how many people here have bought forged real estate,fake IRA’s? or trimmed stocks?

I wont argue that you can make some coin here and there and even make a killing once in a blue moon. But if people are out there buying up cards in the hopes of retiring early or using cards as replacement for traditional sound investing or are hoping to make a fortune. I really feel the bulk of these people will be very disappointed.

I used the T206 auctions above because its something I follow. And there is a perfect example of an investment, which lost money. I would bet as of the past 4 yrs there are many more items that have lost money or broke even, rather than made money. Interesting to hear you thoughts. Maybe we can prove baseball cards are the next major moneymaker after all.

Dick ANY person who bought ANY pre-war card in the 1970’s and or the 1980’s has made a killing. Those deals aren’t available to us anymore.

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Posted By: Richard Lloyd

I would think that main stream cards such as common t206, t205, 1952 topps...etc.. would not change in value alot over time..maybe +- several percent..and from an investment prespective not a good choice...
However, regional food cards and pacific coast league cards have JUMPED ALOT.. to me, W-cards are very under valued and collectors will begin turning to them because of the high price of traditional main stream cards like OJ's,Cracker jacks and rare backs.. I also think Cuban cards will grow because of the limited number and awareness of them.. I am 80% collector and 20% investor but in order to do well as far as return, you need to buy the "CORRECT" cards that are undervalued and that will grow for the next 10-20 years... like my previous statement said, just collect the "RIGHT" stuff and time will take care of value down the road with a little luck..
I would "STRONGLY" agree that cards should not be your main form of retirment..its an added feature!!! or iceing on the cake..

If a collector has the attitude of how much is it worth the day after it is bought then he/she is not a collecotr but a dealer!!

Best
Dick

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Posted By: DJ

When I purchase a card, I purchase it because I want it for my collection, but in the background, I know that when I finally do sell my collection, I should get a decent return on the original purchase. It's not like I'm buying something stupid that won't appreciate like my ex-fiance' who owned an $800 purse. When I see that purse, I think "Hmmm...I could buy two Ned Williamson Old Judges for that price!". What will her purse be worth in the future? It should also be noted that she thought 'cards were stupid...that it was just pieces of paper'. How can I live with someone with an $800 bag telling me this?

You can't compare pre-war cards to cars, TV's, stereo's or anything that loses it's value shortly after the purchase and the money is never recovered. You have to look at cards the same way you look at artwork, stamps, coins, antiques and such.

An investment can best be described as something that appreciates in value and if you look at a Beckett from 1980 and then a 1985 and then five years after the fact, cards hold their own and there is a steady increase:

I.E:

1983 Beckett- T206 Honus Wagner $18,000
T206 Cy Young Portrait $25
T204 Ramly Set $7500 Mint
N300 Mayo Hugh Duffy $125 Mint
N172 Old Judge Charles Comisky $100 Mint

1991 Beckett- T206 Honus Wagner $125,000
T206 Cy Young Portrait $550
T204 Ramly Set $24,500 EX-MT
N300 Mayo Hugh Duffy $600 EX-MT
N172 Old Judge Charles Comisky $800 EX-Mt

Amusing how 'Mint' was an option in the old days.

I worked in a Stock brokerage for three years and I will tell you that there is little buyer confidence there at this moment.

The 'bubble'(people who invested in companies like Global Crossing, CMGI, Cisco, Enron, Corning etc.) and fraud (can you compare trimmed cards to what happened to those Enron stock holders?) have caused 'paranoia' and people are looking to place money elsewhere. They figure that if they purchase $10,000 worth of these silly pieces of paper, that maybe in ten years, it will double in value.

The problem lies in the fact that prices are so out of control right now (listen, the price guide is flying out the window) that it's hurting us 'die-hards' add to our collections. This has been my experience from talking to those who are paying through the nose for cards and who have removed funds form their portfolio. If I had a choice- $50K worth of cards or Microsoft, I would go for the cards to be honest with you.

This isn't your grandfather's stock market anymore. But, will there be a pre-war 'bubble' in the horizon?

DJ

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Posted By: Texas Ted

I am amazed at how this thread has wound its way along into extremes. Once you mention the word investment it has quickly jumped into an attempt to get rich quick.

My earlier post mentioned "diversification". I shifted some of the money out of high tech stocks and into cards (and mostly unsexy 50s cards at that), not as an investment with getting rich in mind, but merely as a hedge against a big drop. It was not unlike dumping dot com stocks and buying plain Jane Municipal bonds paying 2%. Well guess what? It happened.

I was not looking for big investment gains, but loss avoidance. And I liked the cards I had also.

I remember many years ago when I was considering buying a Miro print, the owner of the gallery told me to only buy art you like and never buy with the idea of making money. After all, if it loses value, you still have to look at it, and if you do, its only pleasant if you like it just for the art.

Texas Ted
Starting my third attempt at a second childhood.

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Posted By: Judge Dred

DJ,

You are going to be a closet collector that doesn't tell your wife (the girl with the $800 bag) what you just added to your collection. The way things go you will probably quietly hoard a lot of nice material and then when the stuff really pushes the envelope and prices go really crazy (as if they aren't already) you will decide to tell her about the little "investments" that you've made in card board. Within a short period of time the bubble will burst and you'll have a nice collection but not worth near as much as you figured. She'll then swing that $800 bag at you and hit you square in the forehead where it will promptly leave a huge mark in the shape of the metal logo which you so despise (most of us do).

Do you think that the prices can get any "worse" for collectors? Do you think that there's going to be a huge influx of cash into the hobby? I keep thinking that it's already hit a peak. Perhaps that is just my wishful thinking. Actually I can't wait for the bubble to burst so that I can start picking up the material cheaper.