Harry

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Posted By: Julie

"John, is that you? Did you bring your father's cigarettes?"
"Of course, Mother--and I'm bringing them straight to you, as usual."
"Don't forget my big sewing scissors on the way."
"Righto....you sure open that box like a confirmed smoker!"
"Whew--nasty stuff, tobacco!"
"Is that why you always cut the advertising off the picture?"
"Mmm..hadn't really thought about it. I suppose, partly. But then, the way I have them arranged--they fit neatly in my box that way. Well...who on earth is this? Surely he's too old to play baseball? Wait a minute--he looks familiar..."
"Hey-- nice picture! It's so clear. That's Harry Wright. He's been a big man in baseball since--before you and Father got married. He's the Philadelphia manager now. Boy, he really gets around! See--it says so right there! Gee, it gives me the willys to see you cutting those cards up--I don't know why, exactly."
"Don't worry about it, dear. You want me to keep them for you?"
"Well, of course--but I thought you were keeping them for YOU?"
"For a while, for me. Promise you'll be good to them, like the family scrapbook?"
"Oh, better than THAT!"
"JOHN!"
"Just teasing you, Mother."

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Posted By: J Levine

That is a great card...I have seen most Phillies poses over the years but this one escaped my notice for a long time. Congrats.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

If you wanted to spend the money...

you could send it to the same professional restorers that are handling Andy's "Just So" Burkett...

along with a FULL-SIZED Old Judge common...

and have them merge the two to restore Old Harry to his rightful size.

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Posted By: Joe_G.

That is a nice card, shame it was trimmed. An untrimmed example is being auctioned next month. Seems like a high minimum bid for an 1887 "0" numbered card, we'll see if there are any takers.

http://www.csauctions.com/item.cgi?show_item=0000219696

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Posted By: Julie

card in this pose (reason number one why I wouldn't get it restored) and (reason number 2) the damage is not nearly so disfiguring as the complete trim job to the Burkett.

If you're making a subtle dig at the owner of the Burkett--I thought we got that hashed out already--I am in complete agreement with his reasons for restoring it, and look forward to seeing the finished product.

Joe-- I remember--I already saw it--it DOES appear to be the same pose (though I know there are 2 that are almost identical), but it's very stained, and--whole!

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Posted By: J Levine

Same pose but Verkman has banned me from his auctions so I will not bid on the overpriced card.

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Posted By: Ben

A 1k minimum bid doesn't seem at all unreasonable for an intact (albeit dirty) OJ Wright. At least to me it doesn't. Nice card Julie!

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

No, Julie, not making a dig at Andy ... since I also agree that he is OK in restoring the card.

I was serious.

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Posted By: Joe_G.

I may have jumped the gun a bit on my commentary. The Verkman card will likely have an interested party or two willing to bid the minimum but I'd be surprised if it goes much over $1000. Julie's example has a most beautiful photo, an excellent card.

Question about Harry Wright Old Judges . . .

There are three variations of Harry Wright, all portraits. I know a little about two of the three but would like to see an example of the third pose.

1) Harry Wright looking over his left shoulder, our right (first issued in 1888, reissued in 1889, and again in 1890)
2) Harry Wright looking over his right shoulder, our left - beard clear of right side of collar
3) Harry Wright looking over his right shoulder, our left - beard just over right side of collar

Dave Levin has/had two of the first pose in the Oregon Find, an 1888 & 1889 example.

I believe the 1887 "0441" card would be the third card listed (beard just over right side of collar). Does anyone have the 2nd pose (beard clear of right side of collar)? I'd like to see this pose, likely an 1888 card.

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Posted By: DD

Should Verkman be considered an "old time dealer", based on his grading. If I had a card, OJ, or not, that looked like that, and had scrapbook damage on the back, I could not grade it, in good conscience, anything higher than g-vg.

He states that it's a "technical vg". Apex Technical, perhaps.

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Posted By: wesley

Trimmed cards may be labelled VG with no further explanation.

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Posted By: Joe P.

.............. Heah on your left shoulder.

Listen to Hal.
It's OK.
It's Jake to restore, rebuild and enhance Ol' Harry.
Shua, your short Ol' Harry looks beta than the wun bein auctioned, but tink about how he wud look and feel in elevator shoes.

Once a card is played with, it is no longer authentic PERIOD.

Some of the auction house pimps have already been slippin by sum stabilization specials to the newbies and to those that think they aren't.

I hate to think what will come next if the numerologist and stock marketeers on this board send a message that is interpreted as a mandate for more stabilization.
They'll stabilize without you knowing it, and some will play ball and keep quiet about it.
That much has already been played out in front of you.
How many of you have given the OK to stablize.
We already know of a few.

And before anyone starts crying out that the card belongs to the owner and that they can do whatever they want with it. ..... you're not going to get an argument from me on that, BUT if that dodo starts yelping, whining and crying about alteration and stabilization, I'll be all over their dumb @ss.

Julie, about your beautiful Ol' Harry?

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Posted By: Scott

No one in their right mind would "merge" that Harry Wright with the bottom of another card - it looks very nice as is, unlike the "Just So", and the restoration cost relative to the end value would make it a ridiculous venture.

I also agree that the "Just So" should not get an "authentic" label (if Andy even cared to send it to PSA), since it is partially made of a card that is not an authentic "Just So" Burkett...but what if someone found the original border trimmings from it? could they then be slabbed as an authentic "Just So" Burkett?

...and if I cut my t206 Wagner in half, could I get each half slabbed separately by PSA as "authentic"?

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Posted By: Julie

Harry is that he's already been messed with.

As for testing companies for what they wouold call "authentic," I could send my Caruthers, that I broke in half (com-pletely) and had quite visably re-attached--to--I dunno, who gives out "authentic"?
Here he is: The back is even more obvious, because it's a very dark maroon, and some of the inside color shows through the crack. The only problem is--who would EVER question its authenticity!

Oh yeah: does anyone but me think this is the nicest Wright photo he ever saw on an Old Judge?

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Sorry Scott ... but I was serious.

Of course, I have no idea what the restoration would cost, so that might be why you don't believe me.

My way of looking at it is that the Wright is already trimmed and therefore NOT worth a lot... so someone would like it a lot better if it were part of a whole card.

I am also operating under the assumption that these "restoration" jobs will leave the cards looking like PSA 9's when all is said and done.

If this is true, then I think the Harry Wright card (restored) would be more worthwhile than the trimmed version of the card.

But again... if this type of procedure ALWAYS costs $5,000 ... then probably not. Although the Wright card is a rare card, so someone might still want to do it.

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Posted By: Joe_G.

Here are two of the three poses.

1st pose (1888 & 1889 examples of same pose):


3rd pose (1887, perhaps only year issued):


Anyone have the 2nd pose?

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Posted By: Joe_G.

I stumbled across the third pose of Harry in case anyone cares.



Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: Julie

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Posted By: Joe P.

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Posted By: Joe_G.

Who is Joe P?, do you also collect Detroit OJs?

I thought it was interesting as well Julie. Harry Wright is a little different than many Old Judges in that Goodwin & Company didn't simply re-use his 1887 pose for all subsequent issues and call it good. Instead, Goodwin decided to publish one portrait shot for 1887 and then introduce a couple new shots of Harry the following year (in a similar but different suit). Many players/managers that were issued cards in 1887 would have only those poses issued over the four year run. Not Harry, he had two new poses added in 1888.

I also wish the listing of poses by the Cartophilic Society etc. would do so in chronological order. Pose #3 should be pose #1 since it was the first Harry Wright card issued etc.

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Posted By: Julie

1) Joe P. is a 73-year-old Chicano, with a lot of wit. Also not afraid to attack people he disagrees with in a humerous way. I can't tell if they prefer the humor or most peoples'
nastiness.
2) answer to your question about why Wright has so many photos: Big Man on Campus? He'd been moving from team to team, always in a managerial capacity, for 20 years--maybe had a lot of dough?

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Posted By: Joe P.

Julie:
Joe P. is not a Chicano.
We repeat, not a Chicano.
Nothing personal against any undeniably outstanding Chicano's on this board, but let's get the geography and colloquialism straighten out.
Joe P. is a NYC/Puerto Rican/Cuban from the streets of the old Spanish Harlem Barrio in Manhattan, that's just trying to get along.
I guarantee you that the area was not the Federal Reserve of NYC or the US, but it was wealthy in the need of getting to know the territory, and the territories around them.
It's where I learned to flip 1941 Play Ball's.
At ten years old, I didn't know that tobacco cards existed, they would have been interesting to flip.
So much for genealogy.
Interesting exchange and pictures by the Joe G./Julie duo.

Joe G.:
In my OJ collection, I only own one Detroiter.
An 1887 Twitchell #0489
Does that make me a Detroit collector?

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Posted By: Julie

I only have a Thompson--but it's a nice one...

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Posted By: Joe P.

Your Thompson #0487 was two guys ahead of my Twitchell #0489 at the photo studio.
Do you think that we should go after the rest of the Detroit team?
I've got the Hanlon, but he's listed with the 1889 Pitts team, same studio background, 1888 edition of Hanlon C.F. hands about to catch ball in front of him.

BTW, after looking at the scans on this thread and on others, you guys are inspiring me to get a new updated comp to go with my current monitor, but most of all - finally get a scanner.
Any suggestions from anyone?

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Posted By: Julie

The newer one gets great resolution, scans everthing, but is very finicky about changing the size of anything, up or down, except by increasing the resolution. I have tried photoshop, which does NOTHING for me.