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#1
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Posted By: Paul
Looks like Sutter next year. |
#2
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
Sutter and Rice and Gossage will have their LAST great chance to get in NEXT year... |
#3
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Posted By: steve k
Well, Boggs of course and even though I wouldn't have choosen Sandberg, I'm not upset about it and I'll consider him a marginal Hall of Famer - but there are a number in there which I will never consider HOFers even though they get inducted - and that includes many of the Veterans Committee selections. |
#4
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Posted By: jay behrens
I don't get how people think Sandberg is a not worthy of the HOF? Simply he put, he was the greatest 2B of his day and was the prototype for the 2B we see today. It's not like his numbers are puffed up by smaller ballparks or anything. Joe Morgan is probably the only 2B better than Sanberg to ever play the game. |
#5
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Posted By: Scott
but Jay, you have to remember - there is no HOF handicap that allows Twins in automatically! |
#6
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Posted By: jay behrens
Even though Morris pitched for the Twins, He will always be a Tiger in my mind. |
#7
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Posted By: Kenny Cole
Morris also had that memorable quote about female reporters in the locker room. It was something to the effect that the only time he ever wanted to talk to a woman naked was when he was on top of her or she was on top of him. |
#8
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Posted By: Jay Miller
Jay--Ever hear of a guy named Rogers Hornsby |
#9
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Posted By: Scott
That is right up there with some of the things Dave Kingman said. |
#10
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Posted By: mfricke
The reason I don't think Sandberg should be in the Hall of Fame has less to do with his ability and more to do with the voting process. |
#11
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
The only problem with the "one shot" rule... |
#12
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Posted By: Mark
Eddie Collins, Nap Lajoie, Charlie Gehringer, Hornsby, even Jackie Robinson - all better than Sandberg. Sandberg is more comparable to Lou Whitaker or Bobby Grich. And, obviously, Morgan was much better. |
#13
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Posted By: Scott
The first batch you listed were better than Sandberg, but Sandberg is MUCH better than Grich and Whitaker, and I would also take him over Joe Morgan. |
#14
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Posted By: Scott
because he's such a pain in the *ss as an announcer...on second thought, he was probably better than Sandberg. |
#15
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Posted By: steve k
To state that Sandberg is better than every other 2nd baseman except Morgan is absolutely rediculous! Hornsby is on "everyones" list, including mine, as the greatest 2nd baseman of all time! Morgan better than Sandberg? - this is definitely true and it's not even close. What about Jackie Robinson? What about Collins? What about Lajoie?Sandberg was an excellent player. But the players I mentioned were outstanding players and in my view only outstanding players, not excellent players, should be in the Hall of Fame. |
#16
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Posted By: Mark
Whitaker was the best of the three. Also, we shouldn't forget Johnny Evers. Many people feel he doesn't really belong, and I had my doubts too, until I read Bill James' analysis of his offensive value. Despite his so-so BA, he was great at creating runs for his team, and was one of the top glove men of his time. I know they didn't really make that many double plays, but it wasn't Evers' fault. I don't know that I would take him over Sandberg, but he does belong in the Hall. |
#17
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Posted By: steve k
<<< The baseball writers have NOT made very many mistakes over the years. |
#18
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Posted By: dennis
i think sandberg by retiring the first time ruined(not sure of this term here) his career stats. when he came back he was not as good as when he retired. http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sandbry01.shtml |
#19
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Posted By: Josh K.
Frankly, I just dont understand how it is that Hal thinks Luis Polonia wont get in next year. I mean how in the world do you leave a guy like that out;) |
#20
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Posted By: Kevin Cummings
Hal: |
#21
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Posted By: Scott
...why Whitaker is in the HOF...oh, wait - he isn't. |
#22
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Posted By: Dave Williams
Why doesn't Andre Dawson get any love? |
#23
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Posted By: Ryan Christoff
How can you say Sutter and Gossage didn't get any love when 2 out of every 3 voters voted for Sutter and over half voted for Gossage? |
#24
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Posted By: Mark
I don't believe Sandberg OR Whitaker should be in. While we're at it, Roberto Alomar is just a couple of halfway decent seasons away from 3,000 hits. However, since he tends to switch teams on a regular basis, nobody seems to notice. Do you suppose Sandberg would have gotten in with the same stats if he had played for several different teams? I don't think so. |
#25
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Posted By: Gary B.
"I think many people wouldn't like the "One Shot" rule because there might be long stretches where nobody gets in and they couldn't have a baseball game and a party ever summer for the new inductees. But that's what would balance out the years where "a ton" of players did make it." |
#26
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Posted By: Albie O'Hanian
Bill James ranked Sandberg the 7th best secondbaseman of all-time in the new Historical Baseball Abstract which seems about right. He had Morgan 1st and Hornsby 3rd. |
#27
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Posted By: Scott
So what if the HOF is smaller? In such a HOF, Sandberg clearly wouldn't have a chance. |
#28
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Posted By: warshawlaw
Boggs: what idiots did not vote for 5 batting titles, a .328 BA and 3000+ hits? |
#29
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Posted By: PASJD
Boggs -- a relatively weak HOFer because his statistics were deceptive. I live in Boston and watched him throughout most of his career, and he was selfish to the core (sitting out games to preserve batting titles, and the list goes on and on) and couldn't hit worth a damn in the clutch. Still, the batting titles and 3000 hits (even more noteworthy because the Sox did not bring him up to the bigs until age 24 or even 25) qualify him. As some of my friends and I used to say at a point where he was in the top three all time for BA, he was the worst .350 hitter the game had ever known |
#30
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Posted By: PASJD
Had a lifetime 3.90 ERA. Yes, you read that correctly. Won 20 only 3 times. Never finished higher than 3rd in Cy Young voting. Total of one strikeout crown. In my opinion he is not particularly close to being a Hall of Fame pitcher. He had a few excellent seasons and a very good overall career, but not a HOF one. |
#31
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Posted By: Julie
There is an accepted tradition--I'm sure you all know this--that a "first ballot HOFER" is an honor awarded to only a few, and that the baseball writers balk at admitted more than three a year. (four max). So lesser, but still deserving player have to wait longer. |
#32
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Posted By: Andrew Parks
Boggs definitely deserved being named to the Hall-of-Fame. The man was the greatest American League Hitter of the 1980's and early 1990's - not necessarily the most prouductive, though. But still the best hitter in that League - Gwynn being the best in the NL. |
#33
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Posted By: Jason
Boggs without a doubt should be in the hall. There was a five year span in the late 80's where he could have won the MVP every year. (He should have won in 86, 87, 88 for sure) |
#34
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
The Voting process works JUST FINE!!! |
#35
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Posted By: PASJD
I acknowledge it doesn't take his fielding into account, but according to baseball reference.com's formulas the players his statistics are most comparable to are Lou Whitaker, Steve Finley, Joe Torre, Barry Larkin, Alan Trammell, and Ken Boyer. HOF is not jumping out at me. Granted, if Bill Mazeroski deserves to be in, Sandberg is far more worthy, but I wouldn't vote for either. Or Andre Dawson or Dale Murphy. I think the HOF should be reserved for true all time greats, not every excellent player who amasses respectable lifetime statistics over a long career. |
#36
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Posted By: PASJD
I would take Jim Rice and Luis Tiant over several of those players. |
#37
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Posted By: Judge Dred
Hal, |
#38
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Posted By: Paul
Hal, your list is impressive and makes a good point. It is reasonable to question the qualifications of Pennock, Ruffing, and Lyons. But three questionable calls in a group that large is not bad. Three cheers for the disbanding of the old veterans committee. |
#39
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Posted By: Tim Mayer
Boggs deserves it, bum and all, as for ryno, I am unsure. I will say this Rice gets no love and was the best hitter in the AL for 5 or 6 years running. To me thats a HOFer. |
#40
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Posted By: Greg Ecklund
The huge backlog of players to be inducted at the time of the Hall's founding is probably the reason for the lengthy eligibilty period. Imagine the players who might have been left out of the Hall in 1936 if the rules had been that you had to get in on the first ballot (Lajoie, Speaker, Cy Young, Eddie Collins, Alexander). I imagine they put the rule in place in order to clear the backlog and then never bothered to change it. |
#41
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Posted By: mike
Does anyone know first ballot hofers only? |
#42
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Posted By: jay behrens
I will admit, I suffered a major brain fart and was rushed to head out the door, so I didn't ahve time to look up other players. Hornsby easily had the greatest 5 year stretch of hitting that anyone ever had, including Ruth. I love Bonds, but Bonds still hasn't hit .400 with 40HRs in the same season. |
#43
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Posted By: Scott
If the voters knew at the time that ONLY 1st-ballot HOF'ers would EVER get in, I think they would have voted differently in the past. |
#44
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Posted By: Hal Lewis
Guys... |
#45
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Posted By: PASJD
I would bet you can find lots of excellent but not HOF caliber pitchers who won the most games in any given 10 year span. I am pretty sure there is a ten year span where Andy Pettite won the most games. Is anyone here seriously suggesting Andy Pettite (assuming he doesn't have some dramatic upswing or last forever and win 300 or whatever) belongs in the Hall of Fame? So what if Morris won the most games from 80-89? Is that any more important than who won the most from 84-93, probably Clemens? Or from 87-96, probably Clemens or maybe Maddux? The point is his ERA was 3.90, he didn't even come close to winning ONE Cy Young, and so forth. |
#46
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Posted By: Jason
Baseball Prospectus wrote a really good article about Morris' hall of fame canidacy and made a convincing case for me that he doesn't deserve the honor. |
#47
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Posted By: steve k
<<< I still a firm believer in putting the dominant players at their position while they played. >>> |
#48
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Posted By: Greg Ecklund
Scott, |
#49
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Posted By: Scott
there really isn't any perfect way of doing it - someone would always get screwed. |
#50
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Posted By: mike
The following list may not be entirely correct, but it's what I found quickly at http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofstat.shtml. I think several names are missing, primarily from the earlier elections. |
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