Will SGC grade an E103 Williams Caramel card if

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Posted By: Mark

it doesn't measure up to what the guides state? Both the Lipset Encyclopedia and the Standard Catalog claim Williams Caramel cards should meaure 1 7/16 by 2 3/4. I don't think that is true. I've had a few over the years, and I believe they all measured 2 5/8. Now I have one I'd like to submit, but I am hesitant due to the size discrepancy. Will SGC automatically reject it? Those of you who collect this set - what is the correct normal size? Would appreciate any info.

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

Mark, in looking at my E103s, all of them seem to measure 1 3/4 rather than
1 11/16 wide. The heights are variously 2 5/8 to 2 11/16. Some are clearly taller than others but none is as tall as 2 3/4. None of them appear to be trimmed in any way.

One of them, seen below, has some kind of a decal-like transfer image of Bresnahan on the back. Has anyone seen one of these transfers before?



The complete set can be found at

http://homepage.mac.com/thurber51/PhotoAlbum39.html

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Posted By: HW

The chance are that the Standard Catalog just copied the info out of Lipset's book.

E103 cards are definitely shorter than the standard 2-3/4" caramel card, such as an E92, etc.

That being said, all caramel cards seem to vary quite a bit in size and a 1/16" variation seems to be well within reason.

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Posted By: Mark

Bruce,
Do you mean 1 1/2 wide? I went back and measured mine again, and I agree, they are more than 1 7/16. Also, I noticed they used the qualifier "approximately" when giving the measurements in the Standard Catalog. I suspect there is so much variation to the size of these cards that nobody really knows what the "correct" measurements are. Have you tried to have any of yours graded? If so, did you run into any trouble due to the measurements?

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Posted By: Dan koteles

Mark- I do not know what the transfer is , but I have one on my Cobb that I purchased from Sportscards Plus around 10 yrs or so ago, I wish I had a scanner to show you .

Oddly is has some of the same colorization or likeness, the back part looks like Cobb as well, but my item doesnt have a name like how your states Bresnahan.

We possibly could have 2 items from the same person which have finally crossed paths
or somebody wanted to enliven the blank backs and last but not least ,wouldn't it be nice that if it were a rare factory stamp that only you and I have 2 known copies ?...I doubt it...what a nice thought though.

I had a minute theory that maybe some of these could of had the same player stamp on the back, but seeing yours now ...eliminates that.

It is not a detraction and I like my card and yours as well. The front is a very strong EX + and I have yet to see one better.

Thanks
Dan

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

Yes, I was talking about the width being more than 1 1/2 inches. I haven't sent any of my E103s in for grading. I doubt if any of them would get more than a "2." As has been said already, there is a range of acceptable measurements when e-cards are involved, as opposed to say, 1999 Topps.

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

I have about 60 graded cards mostly PSA, but about 10 in SGC holders. These cards fit in PSA "T" card holders and don't float like most E cards in PSA holders. I am away until next week, but will check sizes. None of my cards have anything on the backs - that is very interesting.

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Posted By: Robert A

Mark.
Lajoie measures 2&5/8 and Dooin is actually shorter.
All of the rest of mine are around 2 5/8.
I just sent in a couple more to sgc as well.
robert see scans at

By the way Bruce: That collins with the transfer on the back is great!

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

Hi Peter,

Is that reading correctly , that you have 60 e 103's ? If so ,wow to that ,is all that can be said !

I remember talking to you about Ramly and Croft cocoa's.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

Sorry Bruce...guess I am really drifty today and couldn't read correctly that the transfer card was yours.

though I am not surprised coming from your usual rare stuff, nice card.

Iam going to get my neighbor to scan the Cobb I have so you's can see the transfer.

Sorry about the double posts, guys and gals.

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Posted By: Robert A

60 E103s is quite an accomplishment!
I only want 30.

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Posted By: Mark

Thanks, everybody, for all the info. The transfer is quite interesting. I wish it WAS mine!

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Posted By: Robert A

Bruce.
I would love to hear what other have to say about that collins with the transfer. Has it ever been the subject of a post here? I couldn't find any past posts.

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Posted By: Bob Lemke

in the Standard Catalog as 1909-10 German Baseball Stamps, Page 152 in the 2005 book.

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

Thanks, Bob. Every day I am reminded how much I don't know!