Fort Washington show

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Posted By: Taur

Just wondering if anyone attended this weekend. I went Sun. and things seemed kinda picked over. I did try to obtain a 1933 PSA 4 #144 Ruth from 707Sportscards, but it was way overpriced...$3150 and the best he could do if I paid cash(which I offered) was $3100 ...they are ridiculously high, and the guy was rude. I will never buy anything from them.

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Posted By: Mike Pugeda

Was there on Friday evening. Managed to pick up an e101 Cobb and a 1921 Cobb exhibit. Saw a lot of nice things but a lot of high prices. As far as the 707 reference, I agree with you 100%. Card selection is great, he just doesn't know how to be polite I guess. I mean how hard is it to be nice, but I have seen similar big dealers respond to other potential customers the same way. All you can do is spend your money elsewhere. There are still a lot of nice dealers out there.

Mike

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Posted By: PASJD

I agree that Levi's prices are off the charts. On the other hand, on the occasions I have inquired about a card via email or at a show, he has always been extremely pleasant to deal with. I don't think your experience is typical, or at least I would guess not.

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Posted By: qualitycards.com

I was at the 707 compound for quite awhile on Friday night, in fact I stored some of my gear under their table when I walked around. Levi, Jim & Donna seemed in good spirits and friendly towards everyone. They've been doing shows for years and I doub't they would intentionally be rude to any customer, its not good business and they are a likeable crew. Perhaps you were mad that the card you were interested in was higher then you wanted to pay and you couldn't reach an agreement in price.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

both buying and selling - they have always treated me well!

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Posted By: al davis

I've seen the 707 roadshow many times and they are consistently unfriendly (bordering on rude). The price they sell a given card for is usually at least triple or quadruple what they will pay for a similar card. It's hard to imagine that there are enough unsophisticated buyers to keep them in business. They always seem too busy to talk to you, unless you're waving a wad of benjamins in their faces. Dealers like this are responsible for driving many long-time collectors out of our hobby.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Reminds me of the dealer on the Simpsons.

I went to our little local show yesterday and picked up an assortment of W cards of HOFers and popular players for $50.

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Posted By: david

i was there on sat. and picked up a few ecards. oj's were way over priced. i saw a few that were trimmed, skinned and had pinholes and they guy was asking 50% book on them. tik had some great stuff and was great to speak to. i was actually a little disapointed in the show, not as much stuff as i thought there would be and the prices were a joke. 707 was asking 800 for psa graded t206 cobbs and had a e90-1 lajoie graded psa 1 for 250. i passed.

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

First time I saw 707 was at the Atlanta Nationals back in 1997. I was interested in a 1954 Dan Dee Mantle and a 1937 O-Pee-Chee Dimaggio. I spent 30 minutes dealing with his crew which was very helpful and nice. When I asked what was the best price they could do for me they said I had to speak to Levi... Levi strolled over like he was wasting his time by sizing me up (I was in my 10-s clothes and in my late 20's). He quickly grabbed the cards and looked on the back to see the prices. He said the price is marked on them. I said can you do any better if I was to take both of them? He said NOPE.. and tossed them back into his showcase. It is safe to say, I will NEVER deal with anyone that judges a book by it's cover. If Levi did not do the showcases at the shows I don't see how he would stay in business as he is a complete JERK!

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Posted By: tbob

I agree, some of the dealers have no clue. I recall going to speak with a couple of larger dealers at the then large KC show in the mid 80's when I was looking for T207s and was dissed. I then went to a table with a pleasant fellow who pulled out a box of 207s all in ex or better condition and I bought over a thousand dollars worth of cards at a fantastic price, one of the best buys I have ever made, hard to find Red Cycles and Broadleafs at well below "book" because I bought so many and all around exmt. I had my young daughter with me, at the time she was about 9, and we both had on baseball hats and shorts since we were headed to the baseball game later that day. One of the dealers was Rosen and the other was the infamous Hagler. Neither could spare me a minute of their precious time and I was buying and polite. By the way, my daughter's picture appeared on the front page of the Kansas City Star handing a ball for a signature to Joe DiMaggio. Absolutely fantastic and she has both the picture and signed ball at her home and a ton of memories.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I agree...that is exactly what happened. The woman who first helped me was so nice, then I asked what the best price would be cash, and Levi came over and was sizing me up...little did he know that I had 10k in hundreds in my pocket. I was going to go back and make him another offer, but my girlfried said why would you even give your money to him anyway.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Levi has been nothing but very friendly to me over the many years I have dealt with him. Jimmy is quiet but very nice as well. Not that this is what is happening here but dealers get tired of constantly being beaten way down on prices. Remember we pay to be on the other side of the table and not just table fees, you have travel and many other costs. When I have 2 pieces marked $5500 and $1500, to have someone offer $4000 for the pair is insulting and gets old. It is the dealer's responsibility to always be nice and as there are unfriendly dealers there are also unfriendly customers and people have bad days. Levi has been making a good living at selling cards for many years, he must be doing something right. Dan Mckee jr.

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Posted By: Leon

Has always been nice enough to me........although he's usually pretty busy......regards

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Posted By: Howie

What is that and what would be the purpose of sizing somebody up? The price of the card he figured is his business. The price you decided you'd pay is your business. Suit sizes are meaningless. There are no jerks on either side because a deal can't be struck. The guy selling rare T207 cards for a fraction of their value is a nice guy but Rosen is a jerk for being smart and not wanting to give them away. I'm hoping to run into a nice friendly dealer some day who'll miss a Lajoie in a group of Goudey commons I buy. I hope he's not a jerk and spots it.

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Posted By: Rhys

Here is my Levi Bleam story

I set up at the Pittsburgh show last fall and rented 2 showcases from him. My brother Rhett and I do not do shows so we had tons of good stuff set up and were busy all weekend. At about 3:00pm on Sunday he comes strolling over and tells me they are leaving and he needs his showcases (2 hours before the show ended and with about 5 people still at our table looking through stuff). To make a long story short, he stood there for 20 minutes staring down the people at our table and making comments about how he really needed to leave and he needed his showcases. Some of the people left, and eventually we just started to take stuff out to give him his cases. Then he opens my cases and starts pulling stuff out (200+ old jusdes, Yum yums etc) and just setting it on my table to "help" us empty the cases out. Great business man indeed. Considering he charged us $30 per showcase for 2 1/2 days, this was far and away the rudest example of how to operate a business I have EVER seen and when I go to shows I walk right past his table.

He could have a sign that said "Old Judges 3 for a nickle" and I would not stop to give him the time of day.

Rhys

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

when people get offended by an offer made or refused on either side of the table. Just like Dan said, as the dealer, they have to make money. You can't consistently lose money and stay in business. If the cards are priced at 150% of 'book' they won't sell unless they're just THAT rare. I would venture to say that Levi has had those T206 Cobbs a LONG time when they're priced at 125-150% of book. Red background Cobbs aren't exactly scarce to find. They do have some different ways about them but they've always been nice to me on the couple of times I've dealt with them. They rarely have anything that I really want, so I don't spend a great deal of time at their table other than to look at the 30 Mantle rookies in everything from chewed to 6-7 range. It's a nice display.

I have a good friend in the business who went up for Levi's 50th birthday party at his home and he said it was a fantastic time. Levi's always been good to him and pays him well for tough cards.

On the other side.....any dealer should not be offended by an offer. If it's way out of line, like Nancy Reagan said.....just say 'NO'. Same thing on the buying side. This stuff isn't life and death......

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Posted By: Friend of Levi

and add that... sometimes you can't judge a book by the first sentence either.

Levi has been doing shows forever and may have developed a hardened approach to those that have not learned that his prices are retail and not likely to be discounted any time soon.

I have found him to be honest and forthright, and consider it my good fortune to have gotten to know him fairly well over the past few years.

I hope all of his critics here will give him the benefit of the doubt, because if you get to know him, you will find a very warm and knowledgable collector behind the "monstrous image" being painted here.

That's my opinion and experience anyways

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

If I got angry at people who are wise enough to sell rare vintage cards for TOP dollar...

then I wouldn't have ANY friends left on this board!



But then again... everyone on this site that has sold me cards has been very nice...

so I actually enjoyed the "blood-letting" and came away with good cards!



When and if I ever attend my FIRST card show... I will be sure to dress like a vagrant and see who treats me nice and who doesn't.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Ive gone to his table a few times at fort washington.His prices all seem about 25 percent too high and eventho he had a few T206 cards i needed i passed.He did however offer to take 5 bucks off the total price of 2 cards i was thinking about.He has nice stuff just too expensive.I didnt have any problems with him personally tho,he seemed nice each time ive talked and i dont exactly dress or look like a rich person altho i spend money on cards like i am

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Posted By: jay behrens

Sadly, dealers to take a look at how you are dressed and make assessments about you from that. When I first moved to the Bay Area in 1983 I was heavy into my punk/new wave mode. When I went to shows, dealers would literally lock their cases and not let me look at anything. Mark Macrae was the only dealer that gave me the time of day. I didn't look like your normal vintage card colelctor, but I knew about tobacco cards than jsut about anyone else set up at these shows, except Macrae.

Dealers make judgements about people on the other side of the table all the time, many times to their detriment.

Jay

The difference be genius and insanity is acceptance.

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Posted By: qualitycards

I don't think how someone is dressed has anything to do w/ it. Its not like dealers are behind their tables wearing 3 piece suits. The perception of a dealer being rude is when a customer offers less on the desired card, and the dealer states no, the buyer is left hanging and boom the dealer is rude & arrogant. Its just perception really. I would imagine if a dealer is rude to 1 buyer he should be rude to all, but based on the commentary above this is not the case.

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Posted By: jay behrens

quality, I dare you to go to show dressed like a bum and approach a dealer see what kind of reaction you get from him. Everyone is judged based on how they look, even the slovenly dressed dealers get judged by the people attending shows.

When I set up at shows I would sometimes dress really nice and wear and tie. On one occassion, I picked up a nice collection of Goudeys and Diamond Stars because the elderly lady selling them said she wanted to sell them to me becuase I was the only dealer there wearing a tie.

Don't kid yourself. As much as we like think we are beyond judging someone by theri apperance, it happens all the time.

Jay

The difference be genius and insanity is acceptance.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Most of those guys look like the "before" pictures in Slim Fast commercials, in bad men's jewelry and Hawaiian shirts to boot, and they are sizing me up??

Actually, living in La La Land, you learn very quickly not to ever size up people on appearance. I've represented a couple of tv stars who come to my office looking like they slept in their clothes...in the street. They purposely dress down so they won't be spotted as readily. Reminds me of one incident I had out here. I went to dinner at a local hot spot on a Monday night and it was dead. The hostess snottily remarked "well, it's the Oscars" to my date and I, like all of their normal patrons were at the show and we'd know that if we weren't such rubes. Well, at the time my father was the president of the academy's outside public relations counsel and he and my mother actually were at the Oscars (sitting next to Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward--so there). So I said to my date loud enough so that the snotty WAM (waitress-actress-model) hostess could hear it: "that's where my parents are; no wonder my mom didn't return my call." That hostess chirped right up with "are your parents at the Oscars?" I said yes, and she spent the rest of the evening toadying at our table. Pretty funny since I am more likely to work for guys who fix their toilets than for the celebs.

You should always be nice to potential customers, even if they don't reciprocate. It doesn't cost you anything, it is much easier on the soul and they might turn out to surprise you. TIK is always nice to folks even when it is apparent his stuff is way out of their leagues, and he enjoys a nice rep for it and seems to have a good time at the shows. When I used to set up at shows some of the best deals I ever had walk in were from scruffy looking fellows who did not look capable of putting together a string of polysyllabic words. I bought a great collection of 1952 and 1954 Topps cards in superb condition from a guy who looked like a wino.

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Posted By: qualitycards.com

"quality, I dare you to go to show dressed like a bum and approach a dealer see what kind of reaction you get from him"

Jay - Actually, this is how I dress! I wear shorts & t-shirt year round. I don't dress to impress, just for comfort. It shouldn't matter if your wearing torn jeans or a business suit, if your asking to purchase a card, thats all that matters that you have enough $ in hand to cover the cost.

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Posted By: martindl

For all the service industries that we have nowadays it really is amazing at how poor service can be. And, it really does go both ways - sellers and buyers alike could both bone up on how to treat people with respect.

I think a lot of dealers get jaded over the years and for some they really don't care. I had a very high profile auction house owner shoo me away from their booth at the first Atlanta National with a "We don't buy that esoteric crap - don't you know who we are?". Well, seems like that esoteric crap is a mainstay of their business now but do you think they're on my list of people to deal with should i ever want to consign? Not quite. Buy from them? Eh, no.

A polite "no thank you" is really all that was needed.

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Posted By: John

I’m going to back Jay up on this. I’ve been in sales for years and even if we don’t want to admit appearance is a huge thing. People will if you want to call it “size you up” intentionally or unintentionally its basic human nature. Its also basic human nature to have some showing of success small or large. That’s why people where fancy watches, t-shirts with car logos and many other subtle things that subconsciously or consciously draw attention to them and who they are. These are the basic things any good salesman looks for even if he himself is a slob.

Think it’s not true give it a try. I did a sociology experiment in college I got permission to shoplift from a major retailer. The first day I dressed like a total bum I was caught all 5 times by security. The next day in a very nice suit and clean-shaven and was never caught. I also asked women to help me to my car because I looked my keys inside. As a bum no takers in a suit with a foreign accent most all women gave me a hand.

So go stand at a busy table or store you in a suit and me like a bum and I can be pretty sure you will be helped first.

It’s sad but appearances do matter a lot, but waving a pile of cash to these card jockeys and you could be in an adult diaper with a Nazi hat on and these guys would work with you.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

When I was in law school in San Francisco a friend of mine used walk through very seedy parts of town on the way back from the underground club scene without being hassled if he had a suit on; seems that anyone in a business suit at 2:00 in the morning walking through the Tenderloin is automatically considered a narc or other potentially scary wielder of the Power not to be messed with.

But this is cards, for heavens sakes; part of the charm of hitting a show is representing for your team in your jersey and cap. And shorts are a must at summer shows; I prefer the baggiest cargos I can find with lots of pockets for pens, checklists, slabbed cards and business cards.

Then again, would you give this slob the time of day?

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Posted By: TAUR

Who said anything about making him an unfair offer. He was rude to me when I asked what is the best he could do cash wise...I never said I would give him any less. My point is that on a PSA 4 #144 Goudey Ruth(SMR 2000)I wanted to see what he could do if I paid cash. He marked the card at 3250 and said the best he could do is 3150..I mean cmon...I think 2500-2750 would have been a fair offer if I would have had the chance to respond after his arrogance, but to take a 100 off is insulting. I'd save him more by doing the deal under the table tax wise Even if he said 3000k I could accept that and walk on. He is a jack***.

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Posted By: Howie

Card collectors come from all walks of life and in all shapes and sizes. No matter where they come from or what they're wearing when they start talking about collecting cards they're all 10 years old again and having fun. The business side of collecting makes some things we'd really love to have out of reach at times. At 10 you couldn't have everything, and at 50 you can't have everything. At 50 you can't act 10 if you don't get your own way. Kids playing with cards at all ages have to play nice.

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Posted By: Thomas

Hello,

I managed to pick up a T207 Schulte, a 1953 Topps Whitey Ford and a 53 Topps Jackie Robinson. Nothing too exciting I know, but they are cards I needed for my sets. Oh and a free Tim Raines autograph on my Yankees bat.

I only need about 30 more T207's and would've been happy to come away with two cards at the show. But out of all the T207's at the show I was only able to get the Schulte. I went on Sunday, maybe I should try and hit the show on Friday night from now on. Did anyone pick up any rarer T207's Fri or Sat?

Take care,
Thomas

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Posted By: Julie

for me on a card..I'm not supposed to talk about it. Incidentally, he doesn't send out cards on spec, like Knouse, T, but he WILL let you pay for a card over an UNLIMITED amount of tine, with ANY downpayment, and I mean ANY.

Of course, if you don't like his prices to begin with, no point in discussing time payments (no interest on those either, of course).

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Posted By: PASJD

Noone is under an obligation to sell a card at a price the buyer thinks is fair. Unwillingness to negotiate does not equal "rudeness." If a seller wants to keep his cards and be buried with them (check out the lack of turnover on some dealers' websites hehe) then that is his business. While I personally think Levi's prices are INSANE (remember the Crazy Eddie commercials anyone although of course he was talking about low prices), obviously he has built a substantial business and is making a calculated decision that his pricing works for him. Rude is making insulting remarks, or refusing to answer legitimate questions, but in the context of a busy show where the man is trying to earn his living, I see no reason he has to stand there and chit chat, much less negotiate, if his mind is made up that he doesn't want to lower his price.

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Posted By: Howie

Taur if anybody is being a jacka$$ it's you. You complain about being mistreated by a dealer's rudeness and arrogance and all it turns out to be is that you felt insulted when he only came down $100 for you. Why must you have that particular card? There are dozens of them available from other dealers and Ebay in all grades.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Taur, Some dealers mark their items and leave room for negotiation. Some will not budge on their listed price. Levi had a marked price, no matter the price, he offered you a discount small as it may seem. He has no obligation to offer you a certain percentage off. Maybe he overpaid for that particular card at one time and has it marked right around what he paid. You can't expect every dealer to deal at a certain percentage off of their listed price. Roger Newfeldt has been dealing for as long as I can remember and does shows every weekend. He rarely will budge from his marked price. I know that and decide if I will pay it or not. I also know that he does this for a living so I respect his business practices. Lyman beat me to death for my Boston Garter case, he received 35% off finally. While he was walking away, I cursed him, thank god he didn't hear me! J/K Lyman.

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Posted By: dan mckee

WOW! that picture above in this thread looks EXACTLY like the lawyer I used in my PSA lawsuit.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I thought it was Orel Hersheiser.

I guess my eyes are bad.

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Posted By: Bryan

Levi's prices are way too high! But, that is that. I can complain all I want that the man is asking $300 for a trimmed 52 topps Campy - and I mean trimmed (no border left on this baby) But it is HIS card. I'm not going to buy it but who is to say that someone out there wouldn't. I have met a alot of collectors over the years - some go out of their way to help and some don't. Those who don't I put my money back in my pocket and walk to the next table. Simple as that.

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Posted By: dan mckee

I would like to state about my first post on this thread. That even though I was slightly offended, I declined professionally. It was actually a friend of mine that made the offer and we have had no problems at all. Now if it would have been a damn bum dressed in anything but a Tux, I would have spit on him. J/K

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Posted By: TAUR

Hey Howie, It is the simple fact that I would pay cash, which is hardly ever is reported to the IRS. By my paying him in cash, he would save more than what he discounted to me in unreported taxes, plus what if I paid by credit card, and he had to pay the credit card fees. The way I look at it he could have at least gone down to 3K due to the previous facts. Think about it a little before you respond. Anyway you cut it, he is a not too bright...nice guy or not.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Maybe he was so honest that he knew he would be reporting the sale to the IRS even though you were paying him cash?

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Posted By: Taur

That's not honest, that would be plain stupid.

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Posted By: qualitycards.com

TAUR - Then maybe you should have taught him a lesson and paid w/ a credit card, then you could have the last laugh.

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Posted By: dstudeba

Not reporting the cash is illegal. You may choose not to do it, but to call someone stupid for following the law in their business transactions.... It seems that Levi discounted the card by the amount the credit card fees would be. Makes sense to me. Personally I hate the bartering crap. I do ask if there is a discount when I buy multiple high dollar items, but otherwise the dealer decided what they wanted for the card, I decide if I will pay that. Seems simple and businesslike to me. Levi has a number of cards I need, but none of them at prices I will pay, so we haven't done business yet.

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Posted By: justcallmeflipper

...Levi needs to become a tax cheat. Maybe his prices seem high because he's the only one that does report all his sales

I should think someone involved in a successful cash based business for so many years would have to be "stupid" to play that game.

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Posted By: prewarsports

I am on my lunch break at the Chicago Office of Cheif Council for the Internal Revenue Service right now. I am not kidding, but I actually work with government exempt entities and not in the fraud division.

As a side note, I always report everything I make, even cash at a show. If dealers like Levi (as much as I dislike him from my above post which everyone seems to have skipped) started to selectively report things to the IRS, they would eventually send some red flags their way and they would get audited. The IRS loves to audit people like this who make good livings and have lots of opportunity to cheat with cash transactions. Once that happens, the few hundred or thousand they saved in not reporting the gain will look like a great deal once penalties are assessed and the aggrivation of having to deal with the IRS are through.

Rhys

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Posted By: Josh A.

After reading this thread, a couple things come to mind.
First, I see 707 at all the Chicago-Rosemont Shows. I have never bought from him because I can usually find the same card cheaper. But usually the people there are kind. ( I asked if he had a 1956 Mantle, and the gentlemen brought out 10 different ones.) Nonetheless, I can see how some people would be put off by him.

Second, I am 26, but look about 17. I am fortunate enough to be able to spend money on baseball cards each time the Rosemont show rolls around. That being said, I usually wear jeans and a sweatshirt, and do not look like I could afford a Whopper, let alone a '33 Goudey. Needless to say, I do not receive the time of day from most of these dealers. (Side note: 707 did ask if they could help me, something most dealers did not do). Anyways, as soon as I brought out the cash, all of a sudden I was their best friend. I have been able to build my collection significantly in the past 2 years, mostly from these shows.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that these dealers run a business, but not all of them have business sense. Some are really nice and will talk to you for endless amounts of time about your collections. Good will goes a long way. Some judge people on how they look, which isn't right, but as someone else said, we all do it. Guess we just have to live with it.
As far as bartering, that is my favorite part about card shows! I love haggling with a dealer over a price, walking away, coming back a couple hours later just to see the same card sitting in his case. Nothing beats going to a show on a Sunday, and getting some great deals! Sure these dealers have to pay for transportation, lodging, table fees, etc., but that's the cost of doing business!
Sorry for my rant, but I wanted to contribute to this discussion.


"I'm thinking about getting a plasma T.V., in case I need a transfusion."- Steven Wright

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Posted By: zach

If i'm thinking about the same dealer my dad and I saw them at the National. I asked to see a Cobb t206 and he pulled out around 10 of them in psa 1s and more in other grades same with his Goudeys Ruths(all over priced)....that was the help he gave me when my dad was with me. When i went back alone he was very rude and completely blew me off like I was some kid who didnt know anything and asked if people had any questions who came up after me. Then I visited the next day and notices a SGC 1 Comiskey Allen and Ginter and asked how much this time he was very rude even with my dad and said it wasnt for sale just the complete set and told us to read the sign next time. We looked over the display case again...the set was way over priced and the sign was on a little notecard in the corner.

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Posted By: Joe P.

The Emily Post Dress Code for shows.

The Do's and Don'ts at a 707 table.

DID ANYONE ATTEND THE FORT WASHINGTON SHOW, and how was it?

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Posted By: leon

When I set up with Scott I tell people they should ask me a price and then come back later because I will inevitably forget what I quoted (too much .....). However I feel at the moment is the price I quote. I could give a rats ass about it. If I said $50 earlier and $75 this time.....then I guess you should have bought it last time you asked. If I said $50 this time and $75 last time then maybe it's time to buy it. Personally I like to haggle and if someone won't knock anything off of the price somehow I generally feel I didn't get a good deal. However, when my website went up I didn't discount at all and still don't for the most part. It's my website and it can be my double standard. Guess I'm just an butthead...... Glad I'm not a dealer later

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Posted By: Mark Rios

"Taur if anybody is being a jacka$$ it's you"


Hey Howie!

And exactly who the hell are you to proclaim Taur
a "jacka$$"?


Mark