Herpolsheimer dilemma

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Posted By: leon

I am interested to see if any board member has bought one of these? My money still says they ain't real......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5130911520

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Posted By: Bryan

I am unable to take a look at the site that you have because at work I am unable to check internet auctions but I think that i know what you are talking about. I almost bought a Ty Cobb Herpolsheimer back card until I noticed that Ben Fisher was the high bidder and I didn't want to take him out of the running. I was afraid that it might be a fake because I was unable to find anything in the price guide that had that kind of back to it. I am curious to see what Ben has to say if he ended up winning the card. Ben . . . are you out there?

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Posted By: leon

Herpolsheimer is a well known M101-4 (Sporting News) back. It is on the larger cards that I think there is an issue. I never could find an old Fritsch catalogue to look but that's where I think I saw these as a reprint set....and they are E121 sized.....regards

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Posted By: Ben

Hence the reason I bid. The Cobb and Johnson in particular went for crazy prices ($1500+ for the Cobb...) so someone else must have felt pretty confident about their authenticity as well. However, I'll defer my opinion to someone more knowledgable/experienced with this particular set - had I known Leon was skeptical about these, I probably wouldn't have risked bidding in the first place.

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Posted By: leon

I am "almost" positive they are a reprint set. I know the seller had said that they would send them to a grading company first and all that ...blah blah blah......my thinking is they would come back graded.....as reprints....regards

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Posted By: Jay Miller

If you guys are really interested why don't you just call Fritsch and ask if they ever put out a reprint set like this. I would guess no (based on absolutely nothing) since their reprint sets are just that--a reprint of an existing set. I wouldn't think that they would make up a set and put an ad on the back. This is either genuine or an outright fraud.

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Posted By: leon

I called them last time I started a thread about it. The guy I spoke to said he didn't know of any they had sold like it. I might have seen them somewhere else but I have seen them.....as fake sets......Don't ya hate it when you can remember almost all of the particulars about something but not the most important fact (like exactly where I saw them). And I started this thread to see if anyone had gotten one and if so what they thought.....heck, maybe I'll buy one just to see. They said they had around 30 total......later ps...btw, this seller is a 3rd party company and probably doesn't know a T206 from a Topps....not that it really matters if they are real

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Posted By: Jeff McKee

Hi Leon
You guys (and Julie) could have wrote to me, I know a lot of you know my ebay handle. I was one of the 2 infamous bidders who ran the first set of these auctions up in price, I think the other is a lurker here as well. Hopefully by me posting it will not upset anyone who may have been thinking to bid on any of these cards listed in the future. I did not post about this last time it was brought up because I am in no position to tell most people on this board anything about cards and I also did not have the card I won to post about. When the Cobb(Manager), Johnson (Washington) and Stengel (Philadelphia) were first listed I was as skeptical as everyone else because the backs of the cards are not like regular 1916 Herpolsheimer's cards and there is no number on the fronts. These were being listed as 1930's cards. When the seller listed the other 3, Kid Gleason(Manager), Milton Stock (St.Louis) and Chester Thomas (Cleveland) I thought why would anyone go through the trouble of reprinting cards of common players with a different card back. I first checked the background of these 6 players and the common year for them all based on the information on the cards is 1921. The fronts are the same as the e121 set and the backs are close to but not the same as the 1921 Holsum Bread back, which is a variation of the e121 set. Also on the back of the 1916 Herpolsheimer's card it says

Herpolsheimer Co.
Boys Fashion Shop
Grand Rapids Mich

on these other cards it says

Herpolsheimer's
Boys Fashion Shop
The Home of Boy's Fashionable clothing
second Floor

The seller of these cards is a selling agent who sells items for people who normally wouldn't list on ebay. He is based in Grand Rapids Mi. and the person who is the owner is also from Grand Rapids, which is where it says Herpolsheimers is located on the back of the 1916 card. The owner was given them by his great grandfather who I was told did not work for Herposheimers, but may have known someone who did. I was also told that there are 69 cards in all, with no doubles. Most of the cards are commons with some HOFer's. The owner was willing to sell the lot for fairly cheap until the other bidder threw out a couple of large numbers and the owner of the cards got greedy and wanted more. Given all of the commons it was not worth the asking price for myself to buy the lot since the set had already been broken up anyway, with 2 of the top 3 cards gone from the set with the selling of the Cobb and Johnson. I had tried to get the owner to look into getting these cards accepted in the hobby, by getting them authenticated and doing the proper research in determining the exact year or years of issue. It is only my opinion that if these cards are legit, that they were from an unissued set of cards. I have only shown the scans of the Stengel to one other person on this board and he is of the opinion that the card(s) look real. I also think the card looks all right, but I am still skeptical and I am probably going to see what SGC has to say about the card. So as I have said it is all speculation as to whether these cards are real or fake or unissued. Any opinions based on the pictures?
Jeff

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Posted By: leon

Thanks for posting the large scans. They do in fact look good from those. In the scans on ebay the backs looked "whiter" ...at least to me. I am pretty sure if I held one I could tell if it was real. I haven't seen any reprints or counterfeit cards that had the right "feel" and petina as an original. It's impossible to fake the aged gloss that can be seen on these vintage cards, imo...especially when viewed from flat on your hand. I hope they are real as it would be a new back variation. Please let us know....regards

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Posted By: Julie

much blacker than the Gleason card pictured with the Herpolsheimer back. It is exactly the same picture, to the spot, upper left. It's a much nicer print of the picture.
The card in the auction is just as blurry in the small picture as in the larger picture.

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Posted By: hankron

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Posted By: dan mckee

I didn't get the johnson, you told me not to. And even if they are real, better safe than sorry. I have been sorry too many times. I may go for a common since Walter is gone. Dan.

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Posted By: Jeff

Now that I have let the cat out of the bag, I hope you all will be easy on me when or if the Heilmann gets listed. Or I have a Stengel that I will be willing to trade to the winner of the Heilmann.
Later all, Jeff

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Posted By: Julie

that's a scan?

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Posted By: hankron

The image was simply a helpful hint for those curious about the cards' authenticity. I'm sure some folks, if lurkers, know exactly what the I was getting at.

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Posted By: Julie

Only there's no camera attached to mine...

LURKER, humph!

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Posted By: leon

will put up more info soon. regards

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Posted By: Bryan

I was looking through previous postings and found this one. Has anyone ever solved this one? I was wondering if they were sent to a grading company or not and what did they say. Have we found a "new" card or not?

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Posted By: runscott

Before reading this thread I had never heard of Herpolsheimers. Then I went to see "Polar Express" the other night and Herpolsheimers was heavily advertised. I guess they're still around? BTW, if you have kids - take them to this movie. I went alone, just to get into the holiday spirit, and enjoyed it. Animation was amazing and the story was pretty good to.