auction question

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Posted By: Tim Mayer

I asked some questions on this, but I really need some help...

I was bidding on an item in an auction...

I was the only bidder all day at a reasonable amount,,,then after the auction end time someone else bid on the item using the 15 minute rule.

I had a ceiling bid on the item which in turn beat that persons bid..They bid again,,,and win...

then a few days later I get an invoice and they say I was the under bidder and the item was mine...

no other explaination,,thats it...Am I obligated...? I feel scammed here as if this bidder never got involved I would have received the item at a decent price,,

if this was a bad or a real bidder why don't they get rid of all bids he put in..basically he drove up the price and then was booted...or at least I am guessing as I was told nothing...is this a schill bidder? is this a scam? I wanted the item but I really feel ripped of here...any ideas, suggestions,,knowledge,,,
again, I don't mind paying up to my ceiling amount if this was legitimate, but why should I pay an inflated amount..does this smell or is this common

thanks

thanks all...

Tim

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Posted By: Judge Dred

Tim,

You are not obligated to purchase this lot. If you were outbid then your responsibility of paying for it ended when you were outbid and the auction was closed.

A lot of times the auction house will offer the item to you at the minimum bid price without any juice. Or it will be offered at your highest bid amount after bumps were taken into consideration. Since you and the other bidder were the only two people to compete for the lot then it would only go to reason that it would be offered to you at the minimum bid and NO JUICE.

By the way, which auction house has done this? I'm pretty sure that all contributors to this thread will probably agree with this.

I seriously doubt that there are provisions in any auction house rules that stipulate that the under bidder would be responsible for his bid if the high bidder were to renege on their obligation.

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Posted By: hankron

But I understand what you are talking about. You are saying that if the bidder backed out of paying, all of his bids should be removed ... It is conceivable that the bidder was on the up and up, but made an honest error in his last bid (I remember when I accidentally added an extra digit on a MastroNet bid, there being a slight difference between $1,300 and $13,000!).

You are justified in expecting an explination from the auctioneer.

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Posted By: hankron

With most big auction houses, if you are the only bidder when time runs out you automatically win at the minimum bid. The 15 minute rule only applying to lots were there are two or more bidders.

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Posted By: Tim Mayer

thanks for the quick response,,,! it's appreciated

all I know so far is this ,,,I get an email saying I am the under bidder on the auction,,, Then I was invoiced for the item as if I was the actual winner with no explaination. Usually in other auctions other companies would make a phone call saying I was under bidder and ask if I wanted the item,,,

The full 15 percent "vig" was included in the invoice.
i have no access to the bid history...all of the disallowed persons bids except the final bid were kept as far as I can tell...

thanks again!

as far as being the only bidder, this I am unsure of,,I do know that I was the only bidder for two days leading up to the end,,,,then after the auction ended I lost to this person using the 15 minute rule...

this additional bidding added 1/3 more to the total.

Thanks Judge and David for the help

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Tim - throw us a bone... which auction?

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Posted By: Tim Mayer

I left out the auction house because I had no idea on how the underbidder thing worked,,, I was just searching for whatever answers I could find... my thinking was I might be misinformed so I wanted to be sure,,, I didn't want to blame someone else ofr my problems...until today, the problem was my discomfort with the situation.thats it,,,

The item was won in the recent American Memorablia auction.

so far except for a lack of communication , or at the very least a lack of explaination..( am I even owed that?) they have been nothing but professional towards me in the past. The item I won was small, so it's no big deal..but I am definately uncomfortable, so if I don't have to take the item,,I probably won't..
<br />

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Posted By: runscott

You have to get all of your initial bids in by a certain time. After that time you can only bid on items you've got an initial bid in for. Others (fewer) allow you to bid on ANY items, provided you have an initial bid in for at least ONE item.

Having thrown away the AM catalog soon after receiving it, I can't say how their auctions work, but if it's the first type of auction you should have gotten the item for minimum bid, if what you claim is accurate.

The way I handle this sort of thing - I bid what I'm willing to pay and if I win and things smell "fishy", I pay the invoice and then avoid the auction in the future. For instance, if I had ceiling bids in on six items and won all six for my exact ceiling bid, and this pattern repeated itself, I would consider avoiding that auction house. But to be honest with you, I have heard nasty stories about almost all of the auction houses, and if we avoided all of them, we would have to limit ourselves to ebay...yucch.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Tim--If you were not the high bidder at the end of the auction you are under no obligation to purchase the item. Like David said, you do not know where the items would have ended up if all of the reneging bidder's bids were removed, not just his/her last one.

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Posted By: nickinvegas

Tim,
I left a voice mail for you this morning. Please call.

As I have stated before Board Members will get first class service from begining to end provided by yours truly. Please feel free to call and ask for me and I will be happy to help.

Regards,
Nick Martinez
1-800-430-0667
American Memorabilia

PS: Scott, We will have several great jerseys to choose from in our next auction. I hope you will reconsider...

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Posted By: Tim Mayer

appreciate all the advice,,,

I did receive Nicks call, so I will call him back as soon as work slows down....

I got the answers I need so far,,,and I believe Nick when hes says he wants to provide us with good service,,,since I made this public, I will update when it is figured out...

Thanks again..Tim

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Posted By: mantle51

"Board Members will get first class service from begining to end provided by yours truly."

What about "regular" AM auction bidders?
Are they going to be screwed by the obvious shill bidding practices Tim detected?

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Posted By: Joe P.

We have to admit that knowing who the bidders are - and their bids, is a helpful feature.

It's nice to know who pushed the bid.
To an experience bidder that's important.

I agree with runscott, If I feel uncomfortable with an auction house I will pass up on it, and I have.

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Posted By: runscott

I threw out the "OJ Proof" catlg as a matter of principle. I've read the other one and found several items I liked, but I'll probably limit myself to Drew Barrymore's bra or maybe one of those "Frank Haney" signed balls (I'm out of money).

Seriously, yes, there are plenty of nice items in your auction - good luck.

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Posted By: Howie

I had a ceiling bid on the item which in turn beat that persons bid..They bid again,,,and win...

You don't know if the person who you outbid was the same person who outbid you. If it was only you and the bad bidder going at it then you should be the winner at one bump over the next highest good bidder. If the next highest good bidder was the guy you outbid then you'd be the winner at whatever your bid was before the bad bidder came along and topped you. If the bad bidder forced your final bid to increase to your max bid then your bid needs to be reduced to the normal increment it would've been over the next highest good bid.

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Posted By: Tim Mayer

I did talk with Nick on this..here are just the facts...

He was very nice, and believe he is doing his best to help me.

I was told that the bidder backed out because he didn't have money. I was offered the item as the underbidder and I don't have to take it. I was told they tried to call me about it. ( didnt get the call)

they did invoice me with no explaination, but I guess if they tried to call that was the explaination?

the person who won had bid a couple of other times in the auction, he backed out of other items as well...That person DID bid at the end and pushed my ceiling bid up. Nick honestly told me that his bidding did add " a few bucks to my total"

his other bids on this transaction...weren't thrown out,,,,he renegged, it was offered to me the next guy down the ladder,,,me....

thats the story , where we are at now,,

Tim

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Since you have no obligation to purchase, I would treat their invoice as an offer to sell to you and I would counter offer with a more appropriate price. I would never accept an item at my max underbid if the bidder I've been locking horns with turned out to be unable to pay. All of her bids (see, equal rights to bad things too) should be erased. I do not think it is fair for an auctioneer to let a disqualified drive up an item for a real bidder. The classy, honest thing to do is to give it to the underbidder for the last legitimate bid after taking out the bids of the renegger. Or they could just drop the vig and ship for free to make good on it.

As I said, IMHO, not what might be legal or whatever. It is Nevada, however, so you should probably get comped on some drinks and a hooker to make up for it regardless of your decision