Why do so many people post things for sale without prices or pictures?

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Posted By: doug goodman

It's not really very hard to post pictures on this site, and a sale price just seems like an obvious thing to include when you're trying to sell something. Am I wrong?

My apologies to anybody who gets annoyed by seeing this exact post in every section of the B/S/T, but I wanted to make sure that it gets seen by as many people as possible.

It seems that there are more and more of these posts every day. If you want to sell me something, show it to me, and tell me how much you want for it. That's all I ask.

Best regards,
Doug

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Posted By: Rick McQuillan

Doug, I agree. You are 100% correct. It really is pretty simple. I don't want to email someone to ask for scans. I don't want to guess at the price. I don't want to make offers. Show me the picture. Tell me the price.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Rick

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Posted By: Jerry

I hear you..I'm a 60 yr old man and my computer skills are about as minimal as you can get. The last Video Game I owned was a Mattell Intelevision. My Blackberry is a radio shack Go Phone. My GPS system is a Hopalong Cassidy Compass watch. But I can post a decent scan on Net 54.
J/K about the Hopy Watch..all the rest is true.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Doug- you are correct that if someone is offering one or two cards he should include scans. But some sales offer dozens of cards so scans can only be provided by request.

And as long as we started a forum here I have a question: last month I posted a large sale of about 50 tobacco cards. I probably sent out a hundred scans, and by my rough estimate I would say 75% of the people who requested them passed. What's the deal? If a card is an SGC 40, and is graded accurately, what are collector's expectations? It was extraordinary how many people did not take a card after seeing a scan. It didn't make sense to me.

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Posted By: robert a

Some people don't know how to post a scan. Others are just too cool.

rob

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Posted By: Jim VB

Barry,

You said: "It was extraordinary how many people did not take a card after seeing a scan. It didn't make sense to me."


I think many people collect scans more than cards.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- that was my wife's suggestion too. There is always the expectation that some people will see a scan and pass, no big deal. It was just how many people passed that seemed to defy the odds. Somebody just emailed me and said my prices were on the high side, therefore potential buyers were likely more finicky. That certainly makes sense.

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Posted By: Joann

Barry,

I'll take 2 very wild guesses at your question - one answer generic and one more specific.

General answer. I think that people like to see scans posted for smaller offerings for the same reason they like to window shop - looking at the great things for sale but not really wanting to or in a position to buy something.

Maybe, of the 75%, some number of them just wanted to see what a card looked like - to wish over it or mentally kick the tires or whatever. To me requesting a scan seems like a lot of trouble to go through, but then ... I've driven to car lots to check out new cars on Sundays when I know I won't be bothered by sales people, even when I knew I wasn't buying a car anytime soon

Specific answer. If a lot of the cards were in the 1-4 grade range, then maybe it's because there can be such a visual difference within these grades. Saying a card is a PSA 3 leaves a lot of room for individual tastes within that grade, and maybe that's what caused some of it.

I know the 3 Johnson I got was a no-brainer because it was such a great looking 3, but personal tastes can really vary.

J

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Posted By: Brian

Hi, Barry,
I, for one, am glad that I requested a scan, and then purchased from you, an SGC50 you listed because it looks more like an SGC60! Thanks again for a great transaction.
Brian
PS sorry for being off-topic

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Posted By: barrysloate

I do know there are tire kickers out there who just want to look at cards, but the ones I had were primarily T205 and T206. It's not like I had a Four Base Hits or some other exotic card that nobody has seen before.

Also, most of the cards were SGC and I have faith that they are pretty consistent with their grading. I hate to think there is that much of a disparity between high end and low end 40's, because that would be yet another reason why third party grading really needs to be overhauled.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hi Brian- but at least you bought it.

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Posted By: leon

leon=cool cat...no scans for me baby. I got things to do!!


Actually, ya'll are so right. regards

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

Hi Barry,
I can only speak for myself, but regardless of what the grade or who's holder a card's in
I want a scan before purchase. Again, just me. I was one of the many who asked for a scan
from you, but think my reason was understandable. I already owned examples of the cards I
asked for and was willing to upgrade if centering, color, etc were better.
A scan is the only way to see these things. I do buy the card, not the holder. I will say
this though, your cards were all very nice and presentable for the grades awarded. I hope
you did well.

Tony

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

how about a rule requiring scans?

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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Barry,



I did buy a few T205s off of you recently (requested scans) and appreciate your promptness. I am super happy with them.



I, honestly, rarely request a scan and usually just skip the ones that don't take time to post photos. I don't always have email access during the day and I figure by the time I request a scan, get a reply, and see the reply--someone else has probably snagged it (assuming the price was realistic).



Occasionally, I will get a scan that is in an odd format or otherwise unopenable. By the time I work it out to get a proper scan re-emailed more time and energy is wasted.



I am a lower end collector and I do want to always see what I'm buying. I like bad corners and bit off-center MUCH more than a crease or paperloss on the front. Also, I really like good registration and I have seen plenty of higher graded cards that have poor registration.



The handful of things I have sold on B/S/T...I ALWAYS use pictures. Saves me the hassle of having to respond to a bunch of requests and doesn't waste anyone's time when a requested scan arrives and they finally view my substandard goods...lol...





Best to you all,



Shawn

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Posted By: Bob

<<how about a rule requiring scans?>>

Jeff, I am with you but unfortunately I think we are in the minority despite the ease in posting one.

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Posted By: leon

and you guys enforce the rule?

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

Jeff, Bob. Count me in.

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

I'll enforce it, just give me the power to delete posts.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Leon, I think it's a great idea. You provide a forum for people to sell their cards without a fee -- the least you can expect is for scans to be posted. Sellers manage to find a way to post scans on their ebay auctions, they can do it here too, right?

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Posted By: James Gallo

I generally almost never see a card listed without a price. A scan is another story and I can't imagine why one would post something for sale without a scan.

I understand what Barry is saying and I agree, but I see people post 1 or 2 cards with nice for the grade email for scan. If even a few people email for a scan wouldn't the person have just saved more time by posting it in the first place.

As for why people didn't buy I think it does come down to the looks of the card. You can have a nice 40 with so so centering and I hate off centered cards. I don't recall if prices are listed but sometimes I ask for a scan and then get the price. If the price is high IMO I pass.

I have lost a card or two because I was waiting on a scan and that pisses me off. If your selling something then do you job as a seller and present the buyer with a front and back scan and a price, plain and simple.

I also hate asking for scans because to me it gets the sellers hope up, but in reality I need a scan before I can even decide on a card or to know if the price is what I will spend given the scan.

I think it might be possible to make a rule requiring a price, but not a scan. I am a mod on a board that requires anything listed for sale to have a price. Generally we given someone 24 hours and then remove the post. I think at this point, people get the hint and just post a price.

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: JimB

Let's here some responses from the regulars who refuse to post scans. Shall we name names? You know who you are!
JimB

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Posted By: JimB

I support the scan requirement. If it is a large lot, how about a scan of a few samples? If somebody is listing 100 individual cards at once, they can be excused.
JimB

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Posted By: Jerry

No Shirt, No Shoes, No Scan, NO SERVICE
That goes for you Spicole

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Posted By: leon

The more rules the more oversight is needed. I am not sure that is a good idea. I can see people getting pissed off for who knows what. Don't get me wrong, I do a lot of trading/buying/selling here too and I hate it when there are no scans and no asking prices...but am not sure a rule is feasible. Maybe we can debate it on the main board? Someone want to start a thread? "Should scans be required on the BST pages?" could be the title...

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Posted By: doug goodman

I don't think a scan / price rule is enforceable, if for no other reason than I'm sure that the moderators have better things to do with their time, and I don't actually think that there should be a rule.

If you don't want to post a picture, then don't, just know that the "pop report" of potential buyers just went down by at least one (me) unless I have a very serious interest in what you are trying (not very hard) to sell.

If somebody posts that they have a Dan Howley Le Presse roto for sale, I'll be sending that scan request in a heartbeat, and only to make sure that it's actually a La Presse roto, the condition won't really bother me.

If you post pictures and prices of the item(s) you wish to sell, I know that I will spend a moment or two looking. I don't care if it's better or easier or works for you as a seller. I only care about me, and it's easier for me as the (potential) buyer.

I agree with Barry, if a large lot is being sold, I don't expect pictures of every item, but a few representative pictures and prices (both individual and for the whole group) are a must (for me, as the (potential) buyer, remember, it's all about me). Obviously, deals can be made for portions of groups on the side, or if the only interest is in selling the entire group, then individual prices aren't needed.

As for not being able to post a scan, I'm sorry, but if you're smart enough to turn on your computer and type, it's not really that hard. If Jerry Thebig6 can make it to work using his Hopalong Cassidy Compass watch as a GPS, then anybody can do it. Right Jerry?

Happy collecting -
Doug

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Posted By: barrysloate

To clarify my point: I had no problem sending scans to everyone who requested, and in almost all cases got them out ASAP. But if someone asks to see a scan of an SGC 40, and the card is in fact Very Good, I would think we are as close as we can be to a deal. Yes, as Tony stated he was looking to see if mine were an upgrade and he emailed me back and thanked me anyway. But if the majority of the people who see that SGC 40 pass, then I begin to wonder what everyone is looking for.

Dinosaur that I am, I can remember the days when I would send out typewritten price lists, call a raw card VG, and sell it quickly sight unseen to a satisfied buyer. Now even a third party graded card needs to be seen and then is likely to be rejected. Maybe the hobby is starting to lose faith in all these slabbed cards.

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Posted By: JimB

Barry,
With all due respect, one can't not post scans then get upset when people ask for them and decide not to buy. Post a scan and save the hassle all the way around.
JimB

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Posted By: peter ullman

they're lazy...or...they really don't want to sell their item!

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Posted By: Paul Carek

I think Joann hit it on the head. In that 1-4 range, there's lots of variation.

I'm on a fairly limited budget compared to a lot of board members, and a $500+ purchase is a very big deal for me. I try not to buy cards with creases, and as we all know, sometimes a 3 has them, sometimes it doesn't. That's why it's always important for me to see a scan, and be able to ask the seller questions about the card.

I do think it's incumbent upon the buyer to give the seller a quick answer, though, and I always try to do that.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- my sale had about seventy cards. Including fronts and backs, that's one hundred forty scans. Not practical.

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Posted By: dstudeba

Hi Barry, why not put the pictures on your website and just post a link to them in your BST post?

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Posted By: barrysloate

That's an idea, but not sure if I can do that. Right now the site is not even being hosted as my auction days are likely over. Nevertheless, good point.

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Posted By: Eric

"Right now the site is not even being hosted as my auction days are likely over"

Sorry to hear that Barry. You ran an awesome auction, and I always looked forward to bidding in them.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Thanks Eric...I haven't ruled it out but I am not pursuing anything right now. You never know.

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Posted By: JimB

70 cards is a different story.
JimB

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Posted By: T206Collector

...this is a senseless debate. If sellers want to be less appealing to buyers that's their prerogative. If buyers want to avoid such sellers that's also their prerogative.



_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Visit http://www.t206collector.com for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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Posted By: JimB

Why doesn't everybody who reads this request scans of every card offered without scans. Maybe then the sellers will get the message.
JimB

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Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

For me, I can deal with no scans when someone is posting 10+ item but I do think it hurts sales. I know I have purchased cards I had no intention of buying because I saw a scan of a card I like and just had to have it. What I really cant stand is no prices listed.

There is a card listed right now in the bsw that I would buy but the seller didnt list any prices so I will not even ask. Any time this happens it makes me feel like they are fishing to see what offers they can get and might not sell regardless of what price I might offer. So I choose to pass on the card, I will not help them find the market, sellers loss.

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Posted By: JimB

I can't even count how many times I have not bothered opening a posting for a card I am interested in when I see that the seller is somebody who does not post scans.
JimB

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Posted By: JimB

Isn't it interesting how none of the regular no-scan-sellers came on here to explain why they do what they do.
JimB

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Posted By: Jim VB

Jim B,

I mentioed this before, but with so many threads going on this topic I can't be sure where.

The biggest "offenders" of the no scan posts have no idea we are even discussing it. They don't read any posts except their own. To them, this board is just another avenue to sell and a free one at that.

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Posted By: JimB

Maybe we should put their names in the subject headings.
JimB