A Few Questions For Dr. Muchinsky

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

First off thank you for contributing to the board...it's nice when we get input from anyone let alone an expert in his chosen collecting field. This board is definitely headed in the right direction...I hope you don't mind taking a few questions.

1. What was your first pinback and how old were you when you obtained it?
2. How many pinbacks do you have?
3. How do you display/store your pinbacks?
4. Got any pics of those displays you can show us?

Thanks!

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Posted By: Mike H

Great questions Dan!

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Posted By: Al Simeone

Mike,
Thats why we pay Dan the big money!!!!!!!!

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Posted By: Paul Muchinsky

Dan,

I feel like a celebrity, a "star" among fellow weirdo's who are as whacked out as I am.

1. I recall the first pin I purchased myself was at Game #5 of the 1958 World Series. It was a PM10 pin of Yogi Berra. My dad and I sat in the nosebleed section of the upper deck, replete with an obstructed view caused by a steel girder. I didn't care. Man, I was at the WORLD SERIES! As far as the first pin I ever got, I recall it being earlier that year. My dad went to a game, and brought home some souvenirs for me: a program, a pennant, and a pin. It was a team pin of the Yankees, 1.75", New York Yankees, American League Champions.

2. How many pins do I have. I feel like giving a (Bill) Clinton-esque answer: "It all depends what the definition of 'is' is". I have all manner of pins, the vast majority are sports related. But also non-sports pins (nothing very valuable, more attractive than anything else): pins with colorful ribbons (fraternal organizations), some political, some advertising. I have always tried to keep my professional life and my personal life separate, but in the latest edition of my textbook I finally let my guard down. I included in my textbook a picture of a pin (non-sports related, found it on eBay, $3) to illustrate a point. It was liberating! I felt like I outed myself (I hereby impose a quota of 5 jokes about this line). How many pins do I have? I never added them up, but about 8,000 - 10,000 would be a fair guess. Impressed? Don't be. I know a political pin collector (and dealer) who has over 750,000 pins. That's right---three-quarters of a million of them. Many duplicates. He keeps them in a warehouse.

3. How do I display them? Most are in glass cases called "Riker Mounts". The top is glass, surrounded by a cardboard frame, and the top is held to the bottom with straight pins. Where do I store them? I have many safety deposit boxes in banks around town. I often "visit" the pins when I'm in the mood. I just sit in a room at the bank, and look at them. Really very enjoyable and relaxing for me. Sometimes I will write a note to myself to research some aspect of a pin when I get home. The "good stuff" is in the bank vaults. The "fun stuff" is in my home. I derive as much pleasure from looking at and researching a $10 pin as a $1,000 pin. They just have different addresses.

4. I forgot your last question. Answer to follow.

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Posted By: Paul Muchinsky

Question #4. See my long-winded response to Mike about if there will be an update or revision to the book.

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Posted By: Alan

Hello Dr. Muchinsky,

It's an honor to have you on this board with us. Question: Do you ever attend the Political memorabilia show in Harrisburg, PA ?

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Posted By: Paul Muchinsky

Alan,

Thank you---a nice way to "talk shop" among kindred spirits. To answer you question, I made it to the show when it was in Hagerstown, but Harrisburg for me extends a "manageable" drive into a "long" drive. I haven't gone yet, but may give it a go some year.

Paul

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Posted By: mike rothstein

Paul - with that many pins, this may be a hard question.

Your all-time favorite pin?

I collect pins from time to time and there was a sale on ebay by an individual who said he had price input in the '88 Beckett on collectibles - I have it BTW and find it very helpful since it has a comprehensive list of illustrations - including WS pins.

There's a pin on ebay listed with a BIN and he shows a fake Williams next to a genuine.



The pic is from his sale - Do you agree the one on top is a fake? It's definitely darker and different than the other.

Last - Do you collect WS press pins?

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Posted By: Paul Muchinsky

Mike,

You asked four questions.

1. Favorite pin. Singular, the 1961 Mantle/Maris '61 or Bust pin. Matched pair, the M&M pair on my book cover, 60 in '61. I was 14 years old then, living outside NYC (in CT), the home run race generated more interest than the Yankee team winning the pennant (for the life of me I don't even remember if the AL pennant race was close). For me, those were "the best of (baseball) times". Just 4 years later that magical year was a distant memory, the Yankees became a truly lousy team for a decade, and I crossed the bridge into adulthood (and all that goes with it).

2. I'm not quite sure what you are asking vis-a-vis the Beckett Guide. If you find it useful (as I do), that's great, and is why such books are written. As for the seller who "contributed to the price guide", I wish I had a dollar for everyone who told me over the years that "they contributed to this or that". To me such statements are meant to send a direct, uncoded message: "I'm somebody special, I have unquestioned credibility, and therefore whatever I say must be true". Such statements are invariably followed by some name dropping to complete the attempt at impression management. But this is "high grade" name dropping---e.g., "Me, Tony, Bob, Joe, Lefty, and Mike worked together on X". To inquire as to the surnames of these people would be to imply you are really dumb, as you can't even spot the members of the "in group" that this guy desparately wants you to believe exists, and of which he is a member. To me the irony of this tactic is that it produces the exact opposite effect. People are honorable by their sincerity, their integrity, and their honesty. If they have to layer in some alleged associations with other people to impress you, it means they lack it on their own. I have also learned that oftentimes "Lefty" made his contribution by pouring coffee for the others. Yet he did indeed contribute.

3. I would be reluctant to attempt to make any judgment of a pin's authenticity by a scan. I think there can be distortion in the imaging that can effect your judgment. Here is the best lesson I can offer on reproductions. The best way to spot a reproduction is not by the front of the pin, but the back. Advances in computer-aided imagery can produce some authentic looking pins. But no computer program can fake the metal plate, celluloid, or collett. If you have doubts about a pin, start at the back, because it is more diagnostic than the front.

4. No. I would love to get the 1942 and 1943 Cardinals WS pins because they are beautiful, made by a classic pinmaker (the St. Louis Button Company), and are made of celluloid, not your usual little metal item. I've also been told there are re-issues of WS pins. If you are into "completeness" as a collector, this is dangerous water. There are within-year varieties (perhaps prototypes), multiple forms (pin, tie clasp, money clip), and phantoms.

Paul

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Posted By: mike rothstein

Thanx Paul.

On the '88 Beckett - I can see your perspective on name droppers - and I use it as a pictorial guide since I don't have another source more comprehensive - I will be looking into picking up your book - sounds like a valuable addition!

The reason I asked about the Williams, is I have one like it - I thought it was real since the back looks like others that I have purchased and unless they're more crafty than I would believe, is slightly rusted.

I'll scan it with the back when I get home - at the office right now.

My favortie WS pin combo - since I was a Brooklyn fan growing up in Queens NY is the '55 WS pins:



They're Nm on average - and of course represent the only WS win for the bums in NY.

I do have the '56 Dodger "tie" pin - but never picked up the Yanks - someday.

It was a pleasure - Mike

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Posted By: Paul Muchinsky

After years of intensive study I may learn how to include pictures amidst my words.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Paul if you know how to send pics in email I can post pics for you.

just send them to nudan92 at yahoo.com

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Posted By: mike rothstein

Paul

What's you opinion on this pin - real or fake?





Thanx, Mike

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Posted By: Al Simeone

Hi Mike,
I will take a shot at this. I would say that the pin you are showing is a repro. The front is very grainy. The back to me really tells the story. The real ones mostly all seem to have a nice little dimple circle dead center on the back (I hope my scan shows it) about the size of lets say a double pencil eraser. Also the collet Round ring on the back tends to be a little more rounded on the real ones. To me the obvious is the grainy photo on the front.
I hope this help you.

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Posted By: Paul Muchinsky

Mike,

Authenticating pins from scans would not be my preferred method, as I would like to "touch" what I see. And at 60, my eyes are not what they once were. [I often remove my glasses and hold a pin up near my eyes]. However, I seem to detect two items on the reverse that APPEAR to be suspect (but it just may be the scan). One is so unusual I can honestly say I have never seen it before.
First, it appears there is some elevation to the back plate, i.e., the back of the pin is not totally flat. I have seen this feature in other pins, but only in a larger diameter, typically in the 3.0" or 3.5" diameter. However, what is unique about this pin is (unless I am seeing it incorrectly) is the top of the needle pin (what you would affix to your clothing to wear it) appears to be soldered directly to the back plate. Most pinbacks (but not all) have about a 220-degree (more than 180, less than 270) circular design that snaps or springs into the trough beneath the collett. My network name, "springpin", is such a pin. Because the diameter of the circular springpin is greater than the diameter of the pinback, the springpin is "pinched" into place around the collett, and the tension in the springpin is what holds it in place against the inside of the curl, directly under the collett. These spring pins are detachable. If you have my book, I show a "stand alone" springpin in the Introduction. The only other type of pin mechanism involves a double plate, with two small holes cut into the second plate. The pin is inserted in the manufacturing process between the two plates, and in effect functions somewhat like a safety pin. Emerging out from one of the holes is the pin, and emerging out from the second hole is a "catch", a small "U" shaped piece of metal, where the sharp point of the pin rests in the trough of the "U". A slight variation to this pinning mechanism is a "C" shaped catch, where the sharp end of the pin enters the "C" from the side. Most distinctively, this type of pin is not removable, as it has been placed in between the two plates, behind the first one. Your pin seems to be neither of these two designs. Yours appears to have properties of both--a straight needle pin that is not removable. If I am "missing" something in the picture, please so advise. If I am not, and I have described your pin correctly, your Williams pin is definitely not vintage, as such a construction method had not yet been invented in the 1950s. The front of the pin seems to have a "checkered matrix" background, but thay may be due to its photographic image.

Paul

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Posted By: mike rothstein

That "pattern" is from my scan - tho it does appear darker and more grainy than Al's and the ebay seller's item - if ya look at it thru a 10x loupe, there are print dots and the black areas are solid rather than being reduced to dark print dots - which would happen in a photocopy - like of a baseball card.

The back is deceptive - it does have the semi-circular pin holder - it's greater than 180 degrees but not by much.

I will say - mine looks a lot like the one that the ebay seller says is a fake.

I didn't pay much - and surprisingly, the seller will take it back if I'm dissatified.

edit: I do have a question - what about the relative smoothness of the metal on the back - I just looked at a Dimaggio PM-10 I've had for some time and the metal is "smooth" on the back like the example Al posted - notice how "porous" the metal is on the back of the one in question. Could that be a "tell"?

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Posted By: Al Simeone

Hi Mike,
I would say send it back if he will take it. That williams pin is an easy pin to find and a real one usually runs in the 15-20 dollar range. As for smoothness The one I posted up is just a very nice example (no real rust on the back) but alot of times there is rusting on the back of mostly all pins that are vintage Rust doesnt necessarily mean that its vintage, rust can be done to a repro pin to try and fake its age but a good eye and knowing what you are looking at always helps. As for rusting its is a good indicator of age but there are many other factors in determining if it is real. Your pin is a good case in point.

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Posted By: Paul Muchinsky

Mike,

Sometimes, but not always. I have some 1.75" "crossed bats" team pins with metal so smooth and shiney you would swear they were made early this morning. But they are vintage. I cannot explain the variation in metal tone in pins. I have seen the porous nature you describe, inexplicable "yellow" colored metal, and what must be very thin metal, as these pins seem to be often dented or dimpled. As a rule, you are correct, the metal is a "tell", but I have seen enough variation to know it is not 100%. While on the subject, one of the classic fantasies (a pin that was not made at the time period suggested on the pin) is a B/W pin of an old Babe Ruth posing with a young Ted Williams. The photo was taken around 1940. The pin from which the photo was based was made around, I would guess, 1980-85. I have seen some "Academy Award" winning efforts to "age" this pin, a series of techniques called "distressing" the pin--the taking of deliberate actions to LOWER the quality of the pin to increase the deception it is vintage. The grand prize winner was to take a sharp metal object, like a nail, and make a few very small scratches in the back. Then with an eyedropper (I'm guessing), a few drops of water were selectively placed on the scratches. Let nature run its course, and in time you have some impressive ferrous oxide looking back at you, AKA "rust", on a pin featuring two of the greatest players of all time. "C'mon buddy, no NEW pin can be rusty. It's gotta be vintage".

Paul