unaltered but fake

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Posted By: leon

To my eyes this card looks fake.....albeit unaltered You OJ experts might know better but I think there's something rotten in the state of Denmark on this one.....regards all

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738769740&category=31719

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Leon--With the caveat that you can't make a definitive judgement from a scan, I think the card looks OK. Sunday cards, for some reason that I don't know, often come with this type of faded, washed out look.

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Posted By: leon

You definitely know better than I but I have never, in my short collecting career, seen an OJ or any legit vintage card, with this "even" of coloring.....wonder why the grading company wouldn't slab it? best regards

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Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

I have to agree that the even coloring is a little strange. I also find it a little odd that the seller has done everything to authenticate it, BUT have it graded. I do agree with Jay however that I've seen several legit OJ's with that faded, washed out look and I also have seen many OJ's that have that slightly uneven 19th century cut that runs down the left side similar to the one on this Sunday, so it could be real. The pros and cons on this card seem about even. There's probably no way to know for sure until someone wins it and has it authenticated or slabbed.

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Posted By: leon

As per the seller, in his description, the card came back from a grading company unslabbed...hence my question in the previous post. Why? best regards

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Leon--I didn't read his write up before. Kind of strange--he throws in at the end that the card wouldn't slab but never says why. If the conservator was worth his salt he would have checked the card under a loop which would tell you if it were original. Also strange that he would send the card to SCP to get an opinion. You should talk to Clay there to see what the story is.

Good Luck!

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Posted By: MW

If this guy has been collecting since 1964 then he also knows that a LEGITIMATELY unaltered N172 with corners like that would sell for much more if it were professionally graded. The only reasons I can think of for not getting the card graded would be that trimmed right edge or problems with authenticity.

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Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

I must of overlooked this seller's slabbed comment. I agree with you and Jay that this is definitly an auction with too many unanswered questions. The grading company won't take it, but a conservator says it's legit? Really fishy.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The things that a conservator look for ans what a grading company look for are two totally diffrent things, so one saying that it's alter and the oter not means absolutely nothing. In this case, the only 'opinion' that matters would that of the grading company, and they wouldn't grade it. The card may be real, but there is something keeping it from getting graded.

Jay

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Posted By: leonl

Again, I am not positive by any means of the legitimacy of this card. All of the comments here have been resonable but the last time I saw a card that looked like this, albeit from 30 yrs later (if real), was one of those Koendig (sp?) Chocolate cards. They all looked "sort" of old and all had the same even brown toning as this, as I remember....and according to several reference books all were counterfit.....btw, I don't collect OJ's, except as types, and thanks to Jay M. I have most of those, so I probably won't bid on any of the current group....regards all

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Auctions with excessive amount of writing sends up a red flag for me. To me they are trying to hide something within the writing or just enhancing the content. Is it necessary to say all the stuff said in every auction? Unless you are Henry Yees writer ( he seems to always get more for his stuff because of his embelishments) they seem to just dig themselves a hole.

Lee