some OJs for sale by Verkman

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Posted By: Todd (nolemmings) 

Nice scans, and a few HOFers- no Rose though
http://www.csauctions.com/html/category/1010-1.html

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Posted By: Jerry O.

From the same auction, is this Harry Wright? It does not look like him to me. Any experts out there?

http://www.csauctions.com/html/category/1010-1.html

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Looks more like U.S. Grant to me. Maybe its Harry Wright the butcher, not Harry Wright the manager.

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Posted By: Brian H.

I suppose alot of guys had that beard back in the day. Hard to say....

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I was interested in a couple of Exhibit card multiple card big lots that were offered w/virtually no description of the cards in them. Nearly every auction I've ever participated in offers a breakdown of the cards in such a lot in the auction description. I would think that not doing so turns off a lot of bidders right away because there are people who prefer not to bother asking. But I digress.

I emailed a request for a breakdown. I also emailed a question about a specific card that had been listed in one lot but that I think was misidentified (my research leads me to believe it was a 1927 issue, not a 1928 issue as it is listed). His response: call me between 1 and 5 my time and we can discuss it. That is, call him at his toll number in NY (I'm in CA) during daytime hours. So, we have no breakdown available via email, no response to my question about the date of one of the listed cards, and a request that a potential customer call in on his own dime to get the info. No offer to call me, no offer to email me info. Not a real professional way of handling an auction inquiry, in my view.

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Posted By: leon

According to Mr.Verkman he would never grade a trimmed card as EX.... THAT would be a VG........best regards

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Posted By: Hankron

I looked at the cdv (rebacked) and it's hard to judge. The person in the cdv has the general facial charectoristics as Wright. I've never seen Wright with that style of beard and with his hair combed back from his forehead like that. If it really is him on the cdv, the hair style may explain why it's hard to authenticate the image. If I were going to bid on it, I would talk to Verkman first and see what additional information or insight he has to offer. Even if it is Wright, the item has been rebacked and it's not as if it would be worth tons of money anyway.

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Posted By: runscott

If anyone wants evidence, just email me. Now I could be wrong (I wasn't alive back then), but I'm basing my conclusion on photographs of Wright and Brainard identified by Albert Spalding, and I think he would have had a better idea about this than Steve Verkman.

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Posted By: runscott

it is just a little troublesome that folks don't do their research before i.d'ing this stuff.

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Posted By: runscott

I'm looking at the circa 1895 NY Giants team cabinet, and it's very nice. However, I have created glossy photos of high-quality scans and they look equally real. I'm not saying this isn't real - it probably is - but, let me ask this: Since it's framed and you can't tell anything about the matt backing...let's say it turns out to be a repro - would Verkman refund your money or would he just claim you are full of sh*t?

Not trying to start anything here, I'm just curious what you folks think, based on dealings with him in the past.

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Posted By: leon

He did give me a refund immediately....

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Posted By: Brian H

Scott -
I think it looks like Asa Barnard as well but this is identified as being from the Halper Collection which (within most of the hobby ....er business) pretty much takes Verkman off the hook for the identity.
Also, Asa had pretty crazy bio and unless this was taken by the end of 1870's I doubt it could be him.
I don't remember his bio off hand but things got pretty sick for him by the mid-1870s.

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Posted By: runscott

...but I would have no qualms at all about buying this cdv as Asa Brainard, regardless of what Halper said. No offense toward Barry Halper, but unless Albert Spalding screwed up, this guy's Brainard. I can send you another photo of Brainard and Wright together that is very convincing.

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Posted By: Anonymous

but this same image has been published multiple times with the man on the left identified as Harry Wright:

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Posted By: Julie

....

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Posted By: runscott

Brainard died in 1888 at the age of 47 and spent his last years operating a pool room in Denver. The cdv in question is not "in uniform" and it's not hard to imagine Brainard having his picture taken after baseball life - plenty of photographers in Denver. He could easily have been in his late '30s or early '40s in this picture. I just read the Brainard article in issue #19 of VCBC (reprinted from SABR) - it has a photo of Brainard which closely resembles the two I posted, none of which look anything like Harry Wright.

Additional note: Albert Spalding, who id'd several Brainard and Wright images in his 1911 book, also inherited Harry Wright's entire library of baseball publications, along with Wright's request that Spalding write a book on the history of baseball. I doubt Harry Wright would have made such a request of his friend if he thought Spalding had forgotten what he looked like. I checked all the images that Spalding had labeled as "himself" and he seemed to be correct in all of them, so senility had not yet set in completely. It's really a very interesting book to read and is available in a reprinted paperback, but the language is quite flowery.

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Posted By: Hankron

I emailed Verkman and he kindly responded. He said they thought it was Wright, because they thought it looked like him and it came from the Halper collection. I will leave the topic and issue at that, as I wasn't planning on bidding one way or the other (I don't collect 19th century photos). The potential bidder can make up his or her mind and bid accordingly.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Are you saying that Verkman admitted that the cabinet was never identified as being of Harry Wright? If that is the case then it's not Wright, it's just plain wrong!

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Posted By: runscott

Well, I'll just keep running with this then. I wonder if Halper had any other cdvs in his collection with modern re-backing, no provenance or i.d. that perhaps looked like Abner Doubleday laying out the first baseball diamond in 1839.

Here's the Verkman pic again, next to a later cabinet of Harry Wright that belongs to a friend. You can compare the eyes, ears, and upper head shape, but unless the clearly older gentleman on the wright had cosmetic surgery to get rid of his baggy eye-lids, there's little chance that the pic on the left is a younger version of the same man.

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Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

That cabinet you scanned in looks just like my OJ Harry Wright, and definitely looks different from Mr. Brainerd.
Todd