I get by with little help from my friends…

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Posted By: John 

What is this card? What I know it’s probably a strip card for the late 20’s early 30’s it is smaller than most strip cards. It uses the same photo from the W517 set minus the number on the front. Since then I have shown the card to several large dealers and vendors all have wanted to purchase the card but no one can give the make or type. I have heard Uncle Jack, Mini W517, W517 proof, Ice Cream and Candy promotion card. The card has a blank back and is on the same type stock as the W517 as far as I can tell. The card measures 1 ¾ W x 2 9/16 tall; the card is in a soft sleeve that should give you a good idea of size also. I have been collecting for 20yrs and this card is the one card I know very little about. Any input welcome. Thanks.

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Posted By: Jeff

I am going to guess it is a 1948 R346 Blue Tint.Card #29. Some cards have the number and others do not.Normal size is 2" + 2 5/8".Hope this helps.

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Posted By: John

Don’t R346’s generally have a larger white border with the name printed on that border not on the photo? I had looked at that issue and thought the card I have looked different, but I’m probably wrong thanks for the help.

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Posted By: leon

Here is a blue tint.....I think yours is a "W" variation...but that's just an educated guess...regards all

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Posted By: brian parker

This card is a W517 Mini, which uses the same pictures, format, card stock, etc. as the regular W517 issue, only in the smaller dimensions that you have listed (which are the same as the couple I own). It is much, much more uncommon than the regular W517's, but doesn't demand that much of a premium, because of collector disinterest in strip cards. Still a nice shot of Lou.

Brian

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Posted By: John

Thanks Brian for the info. It’s a shame true hobby rarities such as these collectors haven’t picked up on. Maybe if we were to fabricate a story that Gehrig had the strip card withdrawn because he didn’t want kids using scissors or sharp objects…anyway thanks.

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Posted By: Paul

That might be a W517 mini, but it also might be 1/4 of a 1930s 4-in-1 exhibit card. Also, isn't there some controversy about whether W517 minis are a legitimate issue, as opposed to something someone printed up a few years ago?

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Posted By: John

Paul I recently talked to an experienced collector and he and I both thought it might be a cut out from a 4 in 1. But as he pointed out the names generally are directly under the players photo not off to the side. I can’t find an exhibit type card with the same style of printing. Also on the back it does have some texture of perforations at the bottom. I bought this card at least 18yrs ago from an antique dealer along with a bunch of 1950’s bowman’s. The card also has age if it’s a recent print I would be surprised. Curiosity is what has got me asking. Thanks for all the input.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

front image was used in the second Gehrig card of the 1925-30 postcard back exhibit cards.

I don't think it is a reprint of a W517 because there is no number.

I have seen one specimen (I think it was in a Lipset auction) where images from the PC back boxing and baseball cards were made into a 4 on 1. Since there is only 1 and I did not see the back, I have no idea if it is an exhibit card or some thing else. However, I can cull my old catalogues for it if you like. Judging from the size and the irregular cuts on two borders, I'd guess that a 4 on 1 of some type is the source. The fonts are all wrong for a true exhibit 4 on 1.

A second possibility is that it is a locally manufactured arcade card. Numerous arcades filled their dispensing machines with privately printed cards that often used images from other sets. I have handled a few of these in the boxing and non sports areas.

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Posted By: MW

I believe that Paul is correct. I have owned numerous W517 mini's and that is what this appears to be. I also seem to recall that the mini's come with and without the number on the front, but I'm not 100% positive about this.

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Posted By: MW

I meant Brian, not Paul.

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Posted By: Mark Macrae

The card that you display of Lou Gehrig is from the W-517-2, or W-517 Mini series, although to my knowledge the series has never been thoroughly studied, or accurately documented. The images used in the series are similar to the larger, and more commonly available W-517 large. Besides the size difference, the smaller variety does not contain a number on the front.Dotted lines are visible, many times, on the top or bottom border.... sometimes both, suggesting that they were distributed like the larger set (Intact, in strips), and then cut down by consumers at some point later on. I am aware of a few dozen examples mixed in with other period cards from original collections, outside the hobby, turning up in my region (San Francisco Bay Area) over the last 25 years, so its possible that it was distributed regionally in specific metropolitan areas at around the same time that the larger W-517 set was being distributed. One longtime collector of the W-517 series is Bob Bostoff, of Empire Sports and he would likely be a good source of input. Regarding reprints, its possible to reprint anything with current technology, but the stock of paper, as well as the printing technique will be considerably different, and any person with experience collecting cards from this era, should be able to spot the inconsistancy relatively easy......I disagree with the pricing structure assigned in the Standard Catalog, as my own experiences dealing with these cards has shown a pricing structure slightly elevated over levels of the W-517 large series

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Posted By: MW

Mark is correct about the Standard Catalog pricing. The W517 minis generally sell for about a 50% premium due to their scarcity.

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Posted By: fkw

Your card is from a set called ca.1930 W517-2, or W517 "Mini". They were originally cut from a 4 card postcard sized exhibit like card. I have only seen one complete card, it was in the April 24th 2002 Lipset Auction last year. I have sold a couple Lefty Grove cards from this set for about $100 EX. I would estimate yours in the $300 range, but thats just my guess since there arent any values for them in the SCD catalog for some reason. They come in many different colors. Dont know how many were in the set. Anyone have a complete card, Id be happy to buy it. Frank
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Posted By: Mark Macrae

I presently have about a dozen different, none of which have any indication of ever having printing on the back (By printing I mean "POSTCARD" , "Place Stamp Here" , etc or any divide lines separating the message from the addressee) which would typically be found on a "Postcard" back of that era. Additionally all that I have (and can recall seeing) appear to have been handcut only on the top and/ or bottom edges.The side edges seem to be 'machine cut'. Width can vary, as with the W-517 Large. Common sense would suggest that the side edges, which are much longer than the top/bottom edges, would pose a greater challenge for an original consumer to cut down (especially an 8-12 year old). It would follow that more of these cards should exist with inconsistant (original) cutting variances if they were marketed in a block of four. My experiences with these cards have been with mostly "outside the hobby" cards or those found similarly by longtime collectors such as John Spalding , Lou Chericoni and other pioneers in the Northern California area. And yes they do come in different colors....Looks like the catalog should make room for a W-517, Type 3 (Block of 4 with Postcard back)...

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Posted By: brian parker

The Gehrig (and my two 'mini w517' cards--both unnumbered, by the way) could have been cut from an 4 in 1 Exhibit card, as the measurements of my two (each is 1-3/4" x 2-5/8") fall close within the normal Exhibit postcard size (3-3/8" x 5-3/8")if there were four cards placed together. But as Mark has indicated, one of my cards has a dotted line at the top, which is not apparent on the Lipset Exhibit which Frank has included in his posting. I don't remember seeing any 4 in 1 Exhibit cards with dotted lines. Also, both of my cards are blank backed, and the Lipset lot is described as having a "postcard back", which many Exhibit cards exhibit (a positively awful play on words). So I don't think John's Gehrig, or my two examples, are cut down Exhibits, but instead a mini version of the W517's that was issued in a strip of cards.

Brian

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Posted By: brian parker

Having read Mark's second posting, I double checked my two cards, and the side borders appear to have been machine cut. The top and bottom borders on each card have been hand cut.

Brian

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Posted By: fkw

Does anyone own one of these W517-2 cards with white borders all the way around the card? I have only owned about 6-8 of them over the years, I do remember at least one I used to own having a printed line on the back (but not a stamp box or words), but I dont have it anymore. The only one I have now is Shires (red), it is blank backed but does have some overprint (reverse image) from the previous sheets ink not being dry before stacking sheets. I dont remember ever seeing one with borders all the way around, but I dont look for these cards too often either. Frank

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Posted By: fkw

Here is a picture of a Lefty Grove I sold. It matches the upper right corner Grove in the 4 player exhibit like card (above). The top and right borders are nonexistant just like the 4 on 1 card. Its all very interesting. One thing for sure the cards are very scarce either way. Frank

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Posted By: brian parker

Frank--both of my cards have borders on all sides. Also, to follow up on what Mark mentioned earlier, the Mini's apparently came in different tints. I have a blue one and a sepia example.

Brian

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Posted By: warshawlaw

There was also a boxing and baseball mixed sport version I recall seeing, in orange

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Posted By: fkw

I have the Lipset auction catalog, the reserve was $400 but I didnt write in the sold prices. here is a picture of that orange tint 2 boxer/2 baseball exhibit like card. It is also an interesting and very rare card. I had a couple of the cut cards and thought they too were strip cards of some kind until I saw this orange card. I have now seen these cards in green, blue, and now orange tint. Vary rare in my opinion. Leaning something new every week lately. Frank