T207s are rising in price-SCD 2003

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Posted By: TBob

I guess I played a small role in this as this was one of the sets I surveyed and listed suggested prices for, at Bob's request. The old listed prices for the tougher T207s were WAY out of line with reality and at first glance at the new book, they are much more in line. It shouldn't affect too many of you on the board because with the exception of about 3 or 4 of us, no one is collecting them anyway.
Bob Lemke deserves credit for soliciting collector input in to the pricing structures for vintage cards. We are the ones who know what we have to pay and what cards actually sell for, in auctions or person to person transactions. A lot of us are set builders (mine are the T205, T206, T207 and E90-1 through E98 card sets, put together card by card)and so we KNOW which cards are the tough ones to find because we have spent years looking for them everywhere.
I did chuckle to see one of my cards picture though, the Old Put Cigar Clarke tobacco card, formerly known as the E98 Clarke Ole Put (kind of like the artist formerly known as Prince). Amazing how this card went from being a caramel card to being a tobacco card. Still it was a kick to see my card, something I am sure most of you have already experienced through the years.

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Posted By: ty_cobb

Are premiums listed for the T207 backs
in the new SCD? The last two Red Cycles
I saw on ebay seemed high,a PSA3 Ryan
for $161, and the Hoff currently at
$125 with 3 days to go. In comparison
Scotty's Napoleon backs on average
went for lower prices, and I was
under the impression that Napoleons
are somewhat rarer than Red Cycle.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

The tough cards (Cycle, Broad Leaf, Anonymous backs) are all listed at 2-3x the price on an average back, which is certainly much more accurate than what the previous guides showed. Cycle's are cited in the set description as tougher than Broad Leaf or Anonymous, but no price multiplier distinctions are made between these backs. For the record, the Hoff card is priced inaccurately as a common in the guide.

Napoleons get hardly any mention at all, and no multiplier. I think this is also accurate - a Nap back is only a variation on the common Recruit back and gets little premium on eBay or elsewhere. The set's tough enough that most collectors probably just ignore them.

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Posted By: leon

From my brief experience it looks like the T207 Cycle, Anonymous, and Broadleaf backs have about the same scarcity.....personally, I like the Cycle back because it's a neat looking red .....sort of like my new acquistion but a little easier to find....also, it seems I always have these weird (remorseful ?) thoughts when I pay a record high price for something....oh well, at least I really like the card...and that's what it's all about ...I think.........regards all.....

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Posted By: B C D

why did you lay your "smoke" on the card dude?

N0 ash trays on the porch of the igloo?

Nice card get it in a holder quick to protect it from yourself!

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

As someone who was actively looking for a Chet Hoff card not that long ago with no luck, i can vouch for their toughness along with their high demand because of him being the player to live the longest and it being his only card issued.
The price of that card has less to do with the back than the front and should go for at least the price of the ryan which is also a tough,tho not as collectible card. If only he lived to be 105 instead of 70

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Thanks for that info, John - I didn't know Hoff had lived to 107. A lifetime record of only 2-4 makes him an appropriate choice for T207 inclusion. One of my favorites is Jack Lively, who wasn't: one year at 7-5 and back to obscurity.

But it's the Cycle back that really matters

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Posted By: TBob

John I am laying off the Hoff just for you, guy, because I know how much you want it. It would be a nice upgrade for me but, hey, what are friends for
Good luck, buddy...
The SCD has one glaring error in the T207 section in my mind, that of Hoff being listed as a common at common prices. Not sure how this happened, I hope I didn't make a typo in my survey listing because I know how tough this card is. Hoff is up there with John Adams and Mike Donlin in a small tier of "tough" cards which are much tougher than most of the tough cards in the set. I'd rate them 8-9-10 toughest in the set.

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Posted By: TBob

and you'll get 5 different answers on back scarcities. I agree with Leon, the Red Cycle is the prettiest from an aesthetic standpoint. Some say the Broadleaf is toughest, some say Cycle, some say Anonymous (not to be confused with the other Anonymous factory back which appears on BOTH tough and common cards, watch out for it!)
I think that at one time the Anonymous was considered scarcest by old time collectors. The popularity of back collecting in the T206 set caused a lot of interest in the Broadleaf backs in the 207 set and for a while it was the flavor of the month. Now it appears to be Cycle. In surveying my cards, I find that they almost exactly break even 33 1/3% each. I don't have the Uncle Scroogian coin like Leon to afford a Red Cross so I'll make do
One other thing: almost every single vintage card book I have seen of any credibility in the last 15 years which predicts market upside in cards lists the T207 set as the one tobacco card set with the most upside potential, even taking in to consideration the collector-dislike of many to the brown and tan colors as opposed to the brighter and more vivid colors of most other sets. We'll see...

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

$205.06 at the end - guess someone needs to send SCD some upward revisions on those Cycle backs...

BTW, the buyer has a terrific website of his cards at http://homepage.mac.com/uffda51/PhotoAlbum.html. It's well worth checking out if you haven't seen it already.

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Posted By: TBob

I take the blame for Hoff being the one tough card in the T207 set which wasn't priced correctly in the SCD 2003 guide. In submitting my list of relative values for the 207s I accidentally left Hoff off the long list of toughies which have a premium. Apparently shrewd collectors realized that as the price for Hoff hit the $200 mark. Not bad for a VGEX card which is not one of the 15 scarcest in the set. Hoff's price will be adjusted for next year's SCD.
On the other hand, it could have been the Red Cycle mania which drove the price up. Hard to tell, but it seems all of a sudden that Red Cycle backs have replaced Broadleaf as the flavor of the month in the 207s. 2 of the bidders told me they were after the card because of the back while 2 more told me they were after the card front. Who knows?

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Posted By: TBob

Meant to say Hoff is not one of the 5 scarcest cards in the set, not 15.