Koos Vs Sedlock (User Friendly Version)

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Posted By: Tim

Dr. Koos,

All I want from this situation is resolution as I am sure that you do as well. From all accounts, you sent the card to my old Oklahoma address and apparently someone signed for it. I can guarantee it was not me or anyone that I know. This being the case, then it constitutes postal fraud and I believe that a follow-up with the postal inspector is in order.

Also, it is in my opinion that the US Postal Service in Oklahoma is about the worst I have ever seen. A package someone sent me back last July finally was delivered this past March and I have other similar experiences with them.

The mailman who delivered to my Oklahoma address (5 of the 6 work days) knew me well and should have known better than to deliver the package...if in fact it was him. When I left Oklahoma last October, I did leave a forwarding address back to Ohio.

Normally, when I did receive a notification of a package in Oklahoma, the mailman would put a orange note in the box for me to pick up the package either at the front office or at the nearest post office. He NEVER came to my apartment door to deliver the package and obtain a signature. Perhaps he was too lazy or did not have the time. If in fact, the mailman did deliver it into my small apartment slot mailbox, then possibly the person who now resides in my OLD apartment picked up and signed for it and kept it. This would constitute fraud.

Another problem in all of this is (in my experience)that apartment complexes continually go through many employees who work in the office therefore if the package was dropped off there then maybe one of the rental consultants gave up the package without knowing the person or the package.

From that standpoint, I can give the apartment complex where I resided another call to double-check their records as to whether someone else signed for the package.

Any other thoughts on the matter on how this situation can be resolved are welcome.

Thanks,

Tim Sedlock
TSEDL2244@aol.com

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Posted By: Tim

Wanted to correct my spelling of Dr. Koos name. It was unintentional on my part. Sorry for the mistake. If Elliot can go in and fix that it would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Tim

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Posted By: Tim

I called my old apartment complex...now under new management at the beginning of this year and all they could tell me was that they sent back via the original service all of the packages that did not match people currently staying there. It looks as if they are of no help. Things must now go along the postal route.

Tim

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

..but the deck seems hopelessly stacked against it. It appears as though once the post office has delivery confirmation that a parcel was delivered to the address affixed to it and the insured slip..That's that! I've asked, I've pleaded, I've threatened, and I've repeated it not only with the counterpersons in my PO, but on the phone as well. I don't want you to NOT have this card but when I was actively trying to resolve this maybe/definitely but obviously botched delivery, with the Post office, once they deemed it as delivered, it was a done deal as far as they were concerned. I'm all for other options or ways to get this card into your hands that appears to have been "wished into the cornfield".

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Posted By: Tim Sedlock

It seems to me that if it was deemed delivered at least the USPS should care if it was delivered to the intended person. As I stated in an earlier thread, the postal inspector, should be involved in some way.

Tim

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Posted By: leon

Hey guys,
This is just a suggestion but when I have a situation like this with one of my good customers I just split it 50/50 and move on....this amount of money is most likely not worth too much more investigating....and I truly believe you are both very honest people as I have had very good dealings with both of you (and hope to for a long time to come).....just a thought.....best regards

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Posted By: john(z28jd)

does anyone know if this is the only tango eggs bescher with that grade (8 o/c i think right?) a card that rare in that condition should be easy to find and hard to sell unnoticed(even if it was cracked from the case).....do either of you still have a detailed scan of it,if it was stolen which it looks like it could have been maybe you could let everyone know about it so if they see the card they could let either/both of you know.....its worth a shot at least.good luck however you guys decide to work it out

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

First of all, I would not doubt the word of Tim. Tim and I were involved in an auction together that went kinda weird, and Tim was instrumental in helping me get it squared away. For that I am very appreciative, as he is very honest and terrific at complete follow-through.

Secondly, since Mr. Koos was the purchaser of the insurance, and has knowledge that fruad was likely in that the recipient may have misrepresented himself as Tim Sedlock at the Oklahoma address, Mr. Koos is within his rights to file for a fraud investigation with the USPS. It is not a "done deal" -- I don't care what someone at a local post office might say. The USPS website will probably instruct you on how to file a complaint focused on the USPS insurance tracking number of that parcel. It will be an easy investigation. The USPS finds out who the resident was at Tim's last address when the parcel arrived there, and asks for the merchandise or files charges. The recipient(s) in that apartment (if they decide to deny involvement) will be subpoena'ed to provide a handwriting sample for analysis, and the USPS will know which person, at that address, signed for the package and kept it. Then, they get charged with fraud (a felony...with the mail, sentencing is especially worse than non-mail felony-forgery). Generally, the postal inpector doing the investigation explains this to "nut-grease" (the guy who illegally signed for it) and "nut-grease" will usually cave-in 9 times out of 10 befroe it ever gets that far, once he realizes a full-fledged felony charge is not worth a $170.00 baseball card.

It's worth a shot. I don't like letting any criminals get away with the crap they pull. Go get 'em! But, Dr. Koos will have to initiate the complaint, especially since he has the insured info, he bought the insurance, and Tim never received the package. The only time Tim would typically be the filer (as an addressee) is if the package arrived and the merchandise was damaged.

Another bottom-line: If the USPS cannot find the perpetrator, they are liable, guys. Since Tim can show proof of relocation prior to that delivery, the USPS will have to eat the loss. They are REQUIRED to make sure that parcel is delivered to Tim Sedlock, and nobody else. If they are not sure, they are required to ID the recipient. If someone signed for it in Oklahoma, while Tim was living in Ohio, especially if he already filed a change of address, the USPS gets to buy the card. In that respect, they will be prosecuting "nut-grease" on their own behalf. Even if it is for only $170, the USPS doesn't like to be defrauded.

Can any of you tell, yet, that I talk forever? <grin>

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

....where something may actually come out of it with helpful suggestions and teamwork, alot better than the User-UNfriendly thread.
I have Saturday off this week. I'll start re-compiling all my info and sit down spending some time with the website Dan mentioned on Saturday and see what's involved in what Dan suggested. If it seems like another non-cost/time effective endless loop, for the 85 bucks or so each, I'm all for Leon's sane idea of splitting it down the middle like King Solomon once suggested. ANYONE out there wind up with a PSA 8 OC Bescher by some coincidence?

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Posted By: Tim Sedlock

John,

Nice idea. I, myself, do not have a detailed scan of the card or the PSA serial number. But of course, it would mean nothing if it were cracked out of the case.

Tim

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Posted By: Tim Sedlock

Dan,

Thanks for the suggestion. Sounds like some work involved, but would love to land the person in jail who signed for it or see the USPS eat it if they botched the deal.

Tim

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Posted By: Tim Sedlock

Dr. Koos,

I will help out in any way I can, but after this Friday evening I will be without internet for 7 or 8 days as I head to Canada to rob from Canada's walleye industry.

Tim

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Posted By: Robert

I had a similar experience where a package just vanished and the seller filed the insurance claim with his local post office.

It takes time to work its way through, but I eventually received a check from them. As the recipient whose name was on the package, I, too, had to file a form (that the post office sent to me all I had to do was return it via mail), affirming that I never received the package.

Of course all of this took a couple of months to go through, but, if you've waited this long, why not?

The real annoying thing is we were told if the package ever did surface, the post office had to destroy it! In my case, it was an uncut strip of 1925 W590s with Frisch, Carey, Alexander, Speaker, Bancroft, and five others that I had won for only $110.

I would much rather have had the cards over the cash, and can only cringe at the thought of some post office employee having to **shred** the uncut strip if it ever surfaces!!

I wonder which of RunScott's methods the USPS would use to crack a graded card case to get at a graded card to then destroy it...

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Posted By: Ye Olde Me

Sorry to burst your bubbles, but the USPS is not going to do much for a $170 card, especially one that was signed for at delivery. Either the person living at the apt signed for it, or someone bearing ID had to sign for it at the PO to pick up. The fact that the buyer filed a change of address before he moved does not in any way hold the PO liable for anything. They'll just say that he should have notified sender to ship to the new address. This is not a case of mail fraud, but human error.

You all know it's illegal to steal mail from someone else's mailbox, right? Try taking that complaint to the local PO when you catch your neighbor taking your Victoria's Secret catalog.

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Posted By: Robert

pursue it. They made me whole on $110.00 because the seller had paid for the insurance and they were bound by that contract. If the package was never delivered they have to pay up. And, if it was delivered to the wrong recipient, while a different story, the post office still is liable...

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

I hear what you're saying there, Ye Olde Me, but in this case, when insurance is purchased, the USPS is bound to make sure it is delivered to the Addressee, not just to the Address. And, the item needs to be whole upon arrival. That is the contract. If it is lost or misdelivered, the USPS pays. It not just "well, hey, bummer dude..." Human error, yes, but the human that erred is not Sedlock or Koos, it was someone wearing the USPS shoulder patch that day. And, it'll ultimately be on their nickel.

By the way, I will have a neat USPS insurance story to share with all of you when the final chapter closes and my check is in hand, probably in about two weeks max. I already know that it has been approved, though, and it reaffirms my faith in our federal govt's system (well, at least the USPS part of the system). It involves my 1913 Mathewson Fan For a Fan (which is a gorgeous, unique item, by the way...)

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Posted By: petecld

Was the item signed for either at the address of intended delivery or at the Post Office?

Does anyone know what name is one that slip?

I would think the Post Office would have the signed card on file.

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Posted By: Elliot

I'm so glad that this "affair" seems to be coming to a reasonable resolution, one way or another, between two "good" guys (Tim and Dr. Koos).

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Posted By: uniship

Guys, as a third party objective observer, here is my opinion. Save your time and energy, split this $85 nightmare, and move on with your lives. At the end of the day, this is your most cost effective solution. Thanks for allowing me to share. Good luck!

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...I'm all for it. The time it's probably going to take to get some kind of resolution (from what I've already experienced just in "on-hold" telephone time) on this issue can be put to much better use. What about it T.? I remember about 7 years ago ordering merchandise that the company had to resend a new order on because I never received it. That was in December. Upon performing some Spring cleanup in the Azalia bushes, the mystery of the missing VHSs, which I had forgotten about, was solved. There was the mostly decomposed parcel and elementally damaged tapes. Should we just split the difference and move onward? Your call.

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Posted By: Tim

Dr. Koos,

That would be fine by me. It is nice we could find a resolution to this amicably. Need an address...

Tim

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

I sold it to R.Koos and will look to find the scan...
It won't help unless it pos up in some auction submitted by the thief........and yes,it is the only PSA-8 O/C so it won't be hard to find in the plastic.....out of the plastic,there is 127 more of the Bescher and most of them look like the one we will call " the Smart" card! I sold Terry Knouse and other's on here Beschers that looked just like it when I broke up the giant find I had...over 700 cards in all! 570 of them I purchased from Dan Knoll .and 137 of them from Rick Kohl.10ct from a guy who had the rare ones, I think his name is Tony Yordin! Anyone know what happened to this guy???

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Posted By: B C Daniels

No comment on the Victoria Secrets catalog?

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

If you send something overnight express, it's supposed to be insured automatically for $500, whether you waive signature or not. If your English isn't so hot, they'll ask you if you bought insurance when the thing goes lost, and then tell you there's nothing they can do...

I TRIED to send something overnight express, signasture waived, the other day, and the guy kept nodding--but when the package got there, someone had to sign for it, because my guy had "forgot" to check the right box, and ask me for my signature...

I had my childhood books sent out from Chicago, and when they arrived, there was cheap Christmas wrapping paper inside. Nobody had access to the box except postal employeess, but they absolutely refused to investigate.

I'm beginning to think Fed Ex is the way to go, even if it's more expensive...

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

Tim and I decided to take the path of least resistance and pain on this one. I just sent him exactly half of the amount by PayPal bringing this chapter to closure. We both fathomed that our time and effort was worth more than $87.50 each and I'm very glad to have reached an amicable resolution with him although the "it takes two to Tango" War, that had everyone breathless and on the edge of their seats for a few threads came to a very undramatic conclusion as a "draw". No rematch has been scheduled.

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Posted By: Elliot

Since Leon is way too modest to point this out himself---he was the first to make the suggestion, not Uniship, but kudos to Dr. Koos and Tim for working this out.