Jordan, Ruth, Brady, Gretzky “GOATS” signed page

[Bpm0014]

Anybody else see this? GOAT signed album page. It is my personal opinion that this “wannabe mid 1920’s” Ruth is bad. And yes my name is clearly listed. And yes I 100% stand behind my opinion. Hopefully I have covered all of the legalities.

[Beercan collector]

Plus Lionel Messi ,
I’m not good with autographs so I’m not gonna say anything about the “B” or miss crossing the “t”
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...-now-complete/

[Bpm0014]

A lot of the letters have their faults, but the “e” is the tell tale sign. They can never get the “e” just right…

[ullmandds]

Do we know where the initial ""Ruth auto page was acquired?

[Bpm0014]

They said it was an autograph book that included Gehrig. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be forged on a blank page.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

They said it was an autograph book that included Gehrig. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be forged on a blank page.

That'd be quite the blunder if this ruth is fake. I agree with your observations despite my lack of qualifications. Was it a dalshire auction?

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

They said it was an autograph book that included Gehrig. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be forged on a blank page.

I think that’s why it was put on its own page. I agree with everything being said. You guys know your stuff!

[Bpm0014]

I’m not sure where the Ruth was originally acquired. The Ruth kind of (and I stress kind of) has the feel of a Mrs Babe Ruth autograph, but is a little more sophisticated.

[Bpm0014]

The “a” and “e” and the crossing of the “t” and some of the “h” have Mrs Babe Ruth characteristics. I’ll probably walk back my statement that it’s possibly a Mrs Babe Ruth. But definitely has some interesting similarities.

[ThePRyanCollection]

The autograph album was acquired from Lelands with full letter LOAs from PSA for the Ruth and Gehrigs.

After I added Tom Brady, Steve Grad questioned the Ruth via a twitter post. So I sent it to him at Beckett and let him review it in hand. He concluded the Ruth was good to go... his quote to me

"Its just a very odd Ruth and in person it does look better than it does in scans"

PSA - before slabbing - recertified all the autographs.

In terms of Messi - there are pictures of him signing the page. Pen to paper.

Ultimately I can understand people having an opinion on vintage autographs, but I'm good trusting PSA and Steve Grad here.

Of course they can make mistakes but this is my piece, which will never be sold, and I sleep well at night with their opinions on this item

[Bpm0014]

As long as you’re happy with it brother! That’s all that counts.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by bpm0014

as long as you’re happy with it brother! That’s all that counts.

+ 100 🐐

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by ThePRyanCollection

The autograph album was acquired from Lelands with full letter LOAs from PSA for the Ruth and Gehrigs.

After I added Tom Brady, Steve Grad questioned the Ruth via a twitter post. So I sent it to him at Beckett and let him review it in hand. He concluded the Ruth was good to go... his quote to me

"Its just a very odd Ruth and in person it does look better than it does in scans"

PSA - before slabbing - recertified all the autographs.

In terms of Messi - there are pictures of him signing the page. Pen to paper.

Ultimately I can understand people having an opinion on vintage autographs, but I'm good trusting PSA and Steve Grad here.

Of course they can make mistakes but this is my piece, which will never be sold, and I sleep well at night with their opinions on this item

The Ruth is very odd but certainly the PSA/DNA authenticators and Steve Grad know a lot more than most of us and I'm sure have a vast exemplar base so enjoy this one of a kind piece.

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by rand1com

The Ruth is very odd but certainly the PSA/DNA authenticators and Steve Grad know a lot more than most of us and I'm sure have a vast exemplar base so enjoy this one of a kind piece.

I’ll certainly concede to that .. Heck of a nice piece

[Bpm0014]

The Ruth is very odd but certainly the PSA/DNA authenticators and Steve Grad know a lot more than most of us and I'm sure have a vast exemplar base so enjoy this one of a kind piece.

I still fully 100% stand behind my initial assessment/opinion.

[doug.goodman]

As a guy who put together an Aaron / Ruth / Mays / Frank Robinson / Killebrew / Sadaharu Oh ball, I think this sheet is pretty darn cool.

Doug "or is it darned?" Goodman

[SyrNy1960]

At the end of the day, it's more opinion than fact, as none of us were there when this signature was signed.

Myself, I wouldn't have used this Babe Ruth signature for this project, because it does have differences from his most recognizable signature; hence why some are questioning it.

However, as previously stated, as long as the owner is happy with it, that's all that really matters.

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by ThePRyanCollection

The autograph album was acquired from Lelands with full letter LOAs from PSA for the Ruth and Gehrigs.

After I added Tom Brady, Steve Grad questioned the Ruth via a twitter post. So I sent it to him at Beckett and let him review it in hand. He concluded the Ruth was good to go... his quote to me

"Its just a very odd Ruth and in person it does look better than it does in scans"

PSA - before slabbing - recertified all the autographs.

In terms of Messi - there are pictures of him signing the page. Pen to paper.

Ultimately I can understand people having an opinion on vintage autographs, but I'm good trusting PSA and Steve Grad here.

Of course they can make mistakes but this is my piece, which will never be sold, and I sleep well at night with their opinions on this item

Love seeing your collection on IG!

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

There are genuine autographs that no amount of quality scanning can do justice to, just as there exist autographs that are incredibly atypical from more standard examples. Unsurprisingly, these two scenarios love to intersect.

If Steve says that an in-person examination can change a person's viewpoint, I would tend to believe that. I have not had the opportunity to have this autograph in hand, so completely understand the opposing thought. It truly is a strange looking Ruth, and I couldn't agree more that I would have chosen a different example for this project regardless of anyone's opinion on the one in question.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

...also, sideways, Messi? Really?! His last name needs to end with a y. That just completely throws off the aesthetic for me. How about simply signing a wee bit smaller and squeezing yourself in horizontally like everyone else? But who knows, maybe the owner wanted it done this way.

Additionally, I wouldn't add a soccer player to this project, soccer being more a world sport and the rest having a history of being considered primarily North American sports in spite of their global growth. I certainly understand why some people would do so, and accept that many others would disagree with my viewpoint. Nothing I feel the need to defend whatsoever; just personal preference. I'm sure some people would put Michael Phelps and perhaps Mario Andretti (or whatever motorsport driver they thought fit the bill) on there, too.

There's no right or wrong way of going about any autograph project. The owner of the piece gets to create their own rule book. That's one of the best aspects of the hobby! If you want a collection of Famous Amos cookies signed exclusively in purple highlighter by Ron LeFlore and his immediate family, and that's your collection, so be it. ("Is that a Toll House?!?! GET OUTTA HERE!!!!!") It's truly a joy to be the overseer of any sort of personal project, regardless of value or outside opinion. It's yours!

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

...a collection of Famous Amos cookies signed exclusively in purple highlighter by Ron LeFlore and his immediate family...

[Beercan collector]

Hmmm .. there’s a lot of single signed Ruth baseballs out there ,
better not - specially with No Ali

[todeen]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

As a guy who put together an Aaron / Ruth / Mays / Frank Robinson / Killebrew / Sadaharu Oh ball, I think this sheet is pretty darn cool.

Doug "or is it darned?" Goodman

Greatest collecting story I ever read. I still have screen shots of the ball on my phone to show to people.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

[todeen]

Originally Posted by hammertime

Love seeing your collection on IG!

what's his Instagram name?

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by todeen

what's his Instagram name?

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

Thepryancollection

https://www.instagram.com/thepryancollection/

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by todeen

Greatest collecting story I ever read. I still have screen shots of the ball on my phone to show to people.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

Can you post a link to the story?

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Can you post a link to the story?

Trust me when I tell you to start at post #1 and read thru the entire thread (only 56 posts at the moment). Take notice of the dates of the posts.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=185134

[JollyElm]

I'm going to say it, and there's no way I'm alone!!

I've never in my life ever heard of Lionel Messi.

Since no first name was mentioned in the thread (with the added possibility, I think, that his last name could end in a 'y'?), I had to search "soccer messi" just to discover who he was.

[FromVAtoLA]

Cllct wrote a story on this. Here's the link - text below. https://www.cllct.com/sports-collect...piece-of-paper

Last June, I spent $14,047.20 at Lelands Auctions on an autograph book featuring a bunch of signatures of baseball stars, including Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig.

When I won the auction, my plan was to get each page slabbed. But when I came up to the Ruth page, it seemed like the small signature on the large paper could create a special opportunity.

Knowing I was going to be at the "Sotheby's x Fanatics" auction in September, and Tom Brady was going to be there, I thought about making a GOAT piece, adding Brady to my Ruth ... and then eventually icons from basketball (Michael Jordan), hockey (Wayne Gretzky) and soccer (Lionel Messi).

At the auction, I won a Jackie Robinson card and sat behind Brady, who didn't win any of the cards.

When he got up, I said to Brady, "Hey, I don't want you to leave empty-handed," and I gave him a ticket to "The Catch" — otherwise known as Joe Montana's epic pass to Dwight Clark — from 1982. Brady famously attended that historic NFC Championship Game as a kid.

Brady said thanks, and I asked him quickly if he could sign an autograph, and he obliged. He was going through the motions of his usual signing when he looked down on the page, and his eyes widened — all of a sudden, he realized his signature was joining Babe Ruth's autograph.

For three months, Ruth and Brady sat alone, until Dec. 31, when Wayne Gretzky's autograph joined the bunch.

It wasn't an easy task. I had gone to Wrigley Field the night before the Winter Classic to see "Gretzky's Basement," which was this awesome set up of what Gretzky's room as a kid looked like. He was supposed to be there that night. But when he didn't show, I had to do the unthinkable. I had to leave it to my friend to get it signed. You see, I was headed off to watch my Texas Longhorns beat Arizona State in the Peach Bowl the next day.

The original idea was to have the two team sport athletes whose sports didn't emanate in America — Gretzky with hockey and Leo Messi with soccer — sign on the side of the piece. I should have labeled the item with clear instructions, but when it comes to getting a free signature from The Great One, beggars cant be choosers. Gretzky signed a little big, and I needed to consider how to finish the piece in a different way than I originally envisioned.

I also wasn't there for the Messi signing. These guys are massive, it's just so hard to get close to them.

Messi held a private autograph signing, and sometimes I think the less of a deal you make of things like this, the better it is. I put my page in a FedEx box and sent it off to get signed. I don't think Messi knew what it was just from seeing the pictures of him having his hand over it.

There were a lot of naysayers who said this was going to be a fruitless pursuit because Jordan would be too tough to get.

From the very beginning, I wanted to make it apparent I was willing to sit on the piece and be patient. That being said, I put this journey on my Instagram page publicly, so it was well within anyone’s right to cover the story.

And that’s what happened: A social media clip went viral about my GOAT album page. Naturally, dozens of swindlers started trying to shake me down for money for some sort of introduction to Jordan.

I declined and decided, “If it's meant to be, it will happen.”

Someone I trusted called me sooner after and said, “Someone close to Michael thinks this is unique enough to show him.” Because this was someone I trusted, I gave him permission to proceed.

There weren’t any demands made of me and my plans with this item, but I knew it would be inappropriate to sell it — not that I ever would. And additionally I know MJ appreciates discretion with these types of things, so I didn’t want to be the one to blast it out all over the internet.

So, I thought for the last part, it made sense to have Brady publicly unveil it.

I connected with Chris Costa, the co-founder of “Card Vault by Tom Brady,” to gauge his interest in showing the completed piece to Brady. He loved the idea and made it happen when Brady was touring the Card Vault booth at the National last Thursday.

Chris — being a smart marketer — knew getting an organic reaction would be best. So he didn’t tip off Brady to what I was going to share with him.

Needless to say his reaction — he smiled and said, "No f---ing way!" — was the icing on the cake of this incredible journey for me.

But like most collectors, the end of one project just signals the start of another.

The top question I got about this piece was, “What about Tiger Woods?” Well, since this was a team sport item, it didn’t make sense to add the world's greatest golfer — despite how iconic and legendary he is.

So I’ve started a new piece for all sports GOATS. I acquired a large format Jordan book already signed by MJ and added Messi to it in that private signing.

It was interesting because doing all of this made me think of myself more as a curator than a collector. I have pieces that are "wow" pieces like Jackie Robinson's debut ticket or my Michael Jordan game-used jersey, but the truth is, this has made me realize I have too many items (mainly cards) that are being auctioned off every month. They aren't that special to me.

This is special. If I only had this piece, the only piece that all five of these icons have ever held, that actually might be good enough for me.

Patrick Ryan is the co-founder of Eventellect and an avid autograph collector.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Trust me when I tell you to start at post #1 and read thru the entire thread (only 56 posts at the moment). Take notice of the dates of the posts.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=185134

Great story, Doug.

[perezfan]

I know I'm late to the party, but I do not like the Ruth either. Upon immediate glance it seems alarmingly "off".

And rather than have Messi vertically scribble a large portion of his name completely off of the paper, I'd have gotten Jack Nicklaus to sign it (horizontally like the others). The soccer sig looks like modern pig slop and does not even fit with the others (either in terms of aesthetics or the sport itself).

Just my .02

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I know I'm late to the party, but I do not like the Ruth either. Upon immediate glance it seems alarmingly "off".

And rather than have Messi vertically scribble a large portion of his name completely off of the paper, I'd have gotten Jack Nicklaus to sign it (horizontally like the others). The soccer sig looks like modern pig slop and does not even fit with the others (either in terms of aesthetics or the sport itself).

Just my .02

I'd be right there with you regarding the Ruth, but as mentioned, won't make judgement without having the piece in hand. Steve has examined more Ruths than most people, so if there is something about this thing that he feels can be defended, that tells me not to risk having to backtrack by taking a stance on it based purely on photos. I don't think anybody worth their salt would stick their neck out to defend such a piece unless they're privy to something we can not see. Until I hold this piece, I feel forced into neutrality, which I consider the best option for time being. Additionally, I would be interested and enjoy seeing the rest of the signed pages from that autograph book.

Now, as to the choice of players to add (or have added), the article that was cut and pasted in an earlier post explains the owner's goal of keeping this item to players on team sports. Otherwise, Nicklaus would be a natural selection. I might actually opt to put Tiger on that piece as opposed to Nicklaus, however. My reasoning is due to his being more contemporaneous to the other modern athletes on the page. Nicklaus just doesn't fit with those younger guys, although the 6 Masters titles certainly do! I dislike Tiger Woods, but also am not big on Brady, so might as well keep that theme going! And, love him or hate him, Tiger has one heck of an autograph, especially for someone of his age. He also seems very exacting with his signature placement in addition to its formation. Nicklaus is also very careful in that regard, but his autograph never did anything for me. There's no aesthetic appeal whatsoever in regard to its formation. A far cry from Lionel Messy's pathetic, angry primate scribble, but still... It's just blase and very flat, especially for someone from his generation. Then again, as much as I dislike his autograph, who doesn't love Jack the golfer and Jack the class act? It would be quite the decision to have to make! (Clearly, an easier decision for you, Mark, and I wholeheartedly understand your reasoning and certainly don't disagree!)

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

...come to think of it, I suppose there's career crossover between Nicklaus, Jordan and Gretzky, but I have simply never viewed them as contemporaries in my mind, obviously due to the 20+ year age gap.