T202 End Panel frequency list and how it relates to T206

[brianp-beme]

Hey...I am not one to shirk from unpopular issues (I imagine I am one of the few on the board that has a complete set of the widely despised W9316's) or oddball collecting angles. Here is one that I thought I would share with the board...T202 end panel collecting. Yes, just the colorful end panels that have been separated from their middle black and white centers. The complete T202 cards are definitely nice, but they have never appealed to me. But my eyes have always been drawn to those ends...they mostly share the general design and artwork of the great T205 set, but are in a slightly different scale, and still have the neat biographical write-up on the backsides. Another reason one might collect the end panels are their affordability...they have traditionally been snubbed because they are just a portion of an original card, so prices overall have been modest. There are many tough cards in the T205, especially variations, for example Eddie Collins with mouth open, that are available as an end panel at a fraction of the price.

The T202 set was issued with a wide variety of center/end panel combinations, with a lot of duplication of players and action photos. Because of this, there is a wide range of how many times a particular player end panel was issued. What is shown below is a complete list of each player featured on an end panel, and an indication of how many panels of this subject were issued. I have included a description of the pose variation in cases where the T205 set has two versions, as there are quite a few instances that only one variation was produced for the T202 end panels. 144 different end panels were issued, ranging from only one panel (just over half the 'set' at 73 examples) to the eight panels of Christy Mathewson and ten issued of Chief Meyers. 53 panels were issued twice, while 18 were issued three or more times. I think I just felt like mindlessly typing a bunch of old time baseball player names as seen on the backside of the panels, but maybe someone can find this list useful. About half of this group should, theoretically, be harder to come by. But please kids...don't go scissoring off complete T202 cards so that you can work on this 'set'. Plenty of your fellow classmates from way back when have already done all this hard work for you.

And by the way, the T202 end panels have nothing to do with T206...just thought I would get more views like when ebay sellers mention PSA in the title of a non-PSA graded card.

Leon Ames (2)
James P. Archer (6)
James Austin (2)
Frank Baker (4)
Neal Ball (1)
Edw. B. Barger - full 'B' on cap (1)
Edw. B. Barger - partial 'B' on cap (1)
John J. Barry (2)
John W. Bates (1)
Beals Becker (1)
Charles A. Bender (1)
William Bergen (3)
Robt. H. Bescher (1)
Jos. Birmingham (2)
Walter Blair (1) - not in T205 set
Roger Bresnahan - mouth closed (1)
Roger Bresnahan - mouth open (2)
Albert Bridwell (2)
Mordecai Brown (1)
Robert Byrne (1)
Howard Camnitz (1)
Wm. Carrigan (2)
Frank L. Chance (4)
Harold W. Chase - both ears show (2)
Harold W. Chase - one ear shows (2)
Edw. V. Cicotte (1)
Fred T. Clarke (4)
Tyrus Cobb (5)
Edw. T. Collins - mouth closed (2)
Edw. T. Collins - mouth open (1)
Otis Crandall - 'T' crossed (2)
Wm. Dahlen (2)
Jacob Daubert (1)
Jas. Delehanty (2)
Arthur Devlin - Giants (2)
Arthur Devlin - Rustlers (2)
Joshua Devore (1)
Chas. S. Dooin (5)
Michael Doolan (1)
Lawrence Doyle (2)
Richard J. Egan (2)
N. Elberfield (2)
Clyde Engle (2)
Louis Evans (1)
John J. Evers (2)
Arth. Fletcher (2)
Russell Ford - black cap (1)
Russell Ford - white cap (2)
Wm. A. Foxen (1)
Arthur Fromme (1)
Harry L. Gaspar (2)
George Gibson (6)
Geo. F. Graham - Cubs (1)
Edward L. Grant (1)
Dolly Gray (2)
Clark Griffith (1)
Robert Groom (2)
Robert Harmon -only left ear shows (1)
Arnold Hauser (1)
R. Hoblitzel (2)
Miller Huggins (1)
John E. Hummel (1)
Hugh Jennings (2)
Walter Johnson (2)
David Jones (2)
John Kling (5)
Jack Knight (1)
Edw. Konetchy (1)
Harry Krause (1)
Frank LaPorte (1)
W.A. Latham (1)
Thos. W. Leach (1)
A.P. Leifield (1)
Edgar Lennox (1)
John B. Lobert (2)
Bris Lord (2)
Harry D. Lord (2)
S. R. Magee (3)
Rich. Marquard (2)
C. Mathewson (8)
A. A. Mattern (1)
Geo. F. McBride (2)
A. McConnell (2)
John J. McGraw (2)
Harry McIntire (1)
Mat. McIntyre (2)
John R. McLean (4)
Fred Merkle (2)
John T. Meyers (10)
Clyde Milan (3)
John D. Miller (1)
Mich'l Mitchell (1)
Pat'k J. Moran (1)
Geo. Moriarity (2)
George J. Mullin (1)
Daniel Murphy (1)
John J. Murray (1)
Thos. J. Needham (1)
"Rebel" Oakes (1)
R. N. Oldring (2)
Chas. O'Leary (2)
Orval Overall (2)
George Paskert (1)
Fred Payne (2)
Barney Pelty (1)
Chas. Phillippe (2)
John Quinn (1)
A. L. Raymond (1)
Ed. M. Reulbach (1)
Louis Richie (1)
John A. Rowan (1)
C. N. Rucker (1)
W. D. Scanlan (1)
F. M. Schulte (1)
David Shean - Cubs (1)
Jas. T. Sheckard (1)
Fred. Snodgrass (1)
Tris Speaker (4)
Jake Stahl (1)
Oscar Stanage (3)
Hy. Steinfeldt (1)
Geo. T. Stovall (3)
Chas. R. Street (1)
George Suggs (1)
Edgar Summers (1)
Edward Sweeney (2)
Lee Tannehill (2)
Ira Thomas (2)
Joe Tinker (2)
John Titus (1)
Terrence Turner (2)
James Vaughn (2)
Charles Wagner (2)
R. J. Wallace - no cap (1)
R. J. Wallace - with cap (1)
Edward Walsh (1)
Zach D. Wheat - (1)
G. H. White (1)
Edgar Willett (1)
J. Owen Wilson (1)
George R. Wiltse - one ear (2)
Harry Wolter (4)
Joseph Wood (2) - not in T205 set
Denton T. Young (1)


Brian

[brianp-beme]

See...T206's rule the Net54 board!

[brianp-beme]

A reprise of this distinctly peculiar thread, now featuring a slew of T202 end panel images...hey, it has been seven years since the only person responded to this thread, and it was me!

Brian

[Copa7]

Brian,

This was informative and a nice Compilation checklist. Thanks for doing this. In this age of cutting for profit, this is refreshing as most likely any of these t202 have been cut before the great war.

+2

[PolarBear]

I actually like the center panels best and at one time was thinking about trying to collect them. I can't remember how many different ones there are, 33 maybe?

[brianp-beme]

I have always considered the end panels true collector cards...the folks who pursue them are almost never in it for the money.

I also like the center action panels. I read somewhere that there are 76 different center panels, but have never verified. I guess complete T202 cards have never done it for me, but the components are fantastic in my eyes.

Brian

[PolarBear]

Yeah, I'm not really a fan of the complete cards either, except maybe the Tinker-Evers-Chance.

[doug34-36]

This is highly belated, but thanks, Brian, for posting this!

I accidentally ran across this post ~10 years ago (possibly my first exposure to net54, long before I was a member) when I was a few dozen cards into the end panels. It was nice to see that I wasn't the only one who was interested; but more importantly, it was extremely helpful to be able to cross-reference against your checklist -- at that point I already knew which players were included, but I didn't know about the various variations and had several gaps that I wasn't even aware of.

I'm finally starting to approach the end (141/144 on the end panels, 72/76 on centers) and wanted to let you know how grateful I am for this information; I wouldn't have been able to get this close if I hadn't known what I needed to look for.
.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by doug34-36

This is highly belated, but thanks, Brian, for posting this!
***
[I] wanted to let you know how grateful I am for this information; I wouldn't have been able to get this close if I hadn't known what I needed to look for.

This is great to read.

Every corner of the hobby benefits from published research. It ensures future generations can appreciate the hobby and build on the wealth of information.

[molenick]

Does anyone know what "...mowing down the Yankees in 1910 (14 in one game)..." refers to on the back of Mathewson's card?

Neither the Giants or Yankees were in the World Series in 1910 and according to Mathewson's game log on Baseball Reference, the most he struck out in a regular season game in 1910 was 11. Does this refer to an exhibition or pre-season game? And weren't the Yankees called the Highlanders in 1910?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by molenick

Does anyone know what "...mowing down the Yankees in 1910 (14 in one game)..." refers to on the back of Mathewson's card?

Neither the Giants or Yankees were in the World Series in 1910 and according to Mathewson's game log on Baseball Reference, the most he struck out in a regular season game in 1910 was 11. Does this refer to an exhibition or pre-season game? And weren't the Yankees called the Highlanders in 1910?

Nice spotting on the Mathewson T202 writeup. Here is an article on mlb.com https://www.mlb.com/news/new-york-ya...am-name-origin that indicates the usage of "Yankees" to identify the New York team went back to as early as 1904, and was quite often used in newspaper articles to refer to the team up until it was officially designated as the team name in 1913. The 14 strikeouts by Mathewson against the Yankees must have been preseason or exhibition game.


Brian

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by molenick

Does anyone know what "...mowing down the Yankees in 1910 (14 in one game)..." refers to on the back of Mathewson's card?

Neither the Giants or Yankees were in the World Series in 1910 and according to Mathewson's game log on Baseball Reference, the most he struck out in a regular season game in 1910 was 11. Does this refer to an exhibition or pre-season game? And weren't the Yankees called the Highlanders in 1910?

The New York teams played an inter-league city series at the end of the season. Matty won the first game on October 13, 1910, striking out 14. He also won two other games in the series. FYI:



As for the team name, the New York Americans were often called the Yankees as well s the Highlanders. The T205s from the prior year carried that name on the card fronts as did some of the back descriptions. T202 apparently stuck with the same theme.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by doug34-36

This is highly belated, but thanks, Brian, for posting this!

I accidentally ran across this post ~10 years ago (possibly my first exposure to net54, long before I was a member) when I was a few dozen cards into the end panels. It was nice to see that I wasn't the only one who was interested; but more importantly, it was extremely helpful to be able to cross-reference against your checklist -- at that point I already knew which players were included, but I didn't know about the various variations and had several gaps that I wasn't even aware of.

I'm finally starting to approach the end (141/144 on the end panels, 72/76 on centers) and wanted to let you know how grateful I am for this information; I wouldn't have been able to get this close if I hadn't known what I needed to look for.
.

Glad you found it useful Doug. It has always been enjoyable for me to highlight and explore less common collecting angles...and collecting T202 end panels is definitely for those who are angled. I took my time over the years to add the exact name as seen on the back of the end panels so that my listing would be consistently identified as such.

Looks like you on the cusp of completion for both the ends and middles. Good luck on your quest for the final 7 you need.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

The New York teams played an inter-league city series at the end of the season. Matty won the first game on October 13, 1910, striking out 14. He also won two other games in the series. FYI:



As for the team name, the New York Americans were often called the Yankees as well s the Highlanders. The T205s from the prior year carried that name on the card fronts as did some of the back descriptions. T202 apparently stuck with the same theme.

Nice digging Todd. My assumption that the writeup on the back wasn't an early version of fake news was accurate.


Brian

[nolemmings]

Hi Brian, it’s amazing the minutiae one remembers. I learned of the New York city series some time back when I was researching Louis Drucke, the Giants pitcher who appears in only a handful of sets, none of which are standard “cards” unless you count Pinkerton cabinets in that group. Anyway, one of Matty’s appearances in that series was in relief of Drucke, who faltered in the 7th inning of game 3. Five days later Drucke was on board a New York subway train that derailed, and what were thought to be relatively minor injuries then manifested during the following Spring training games. He was never the same, and was out of baseball not long thereafter– a shame in that he was projected to be a star.

Sorry for the hijack, but I always wondered who this Drucke guy was and it led me down this path.

[molenick]

Thanks everyone for the research! It does sound familiar that Yankees was used "unofficially" before it was official.

Curious that they went with an exhibition performance rather than say "won 37 games in 1908" or "retroactively led league in WAR the past four seasons."

I guess striking out 14 batters in a game was bigger news than winning 30 games (ho hum) in those days.

[marcdelpercio]

I've always been intrigued by the Blair, Devlin (Rustlers), and Wood panels as these are the only 3 out of 144 designs not included in the T205 set, whereas all the others share nearly identical artwork to their T205 counterparts. This is especially interesting as the backs of the T205s advertise "400 Designs" which, of course, is far greater than what was actually produced. I am aware of the many theories as to why this discrepancy exists, but I can't help but to wonder if Blair, Devlin, and Wood (along with many others) were at some point intended to be a part of the T205 set and somehow snuck into the T202s.

Great research as always, Brian!

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by marcdelpercio

I've always been intrigued by the Blair, Devlin (Rustlers), and Wood panels as these are the only 3 out of 144 designs not included in the T205 set, whereas all the others share nearly identical artwork to their T205 counterparts. This is especially interesting as the backs of the T205s advertise "400 Designs" which, of course, is far greater than what was actually produced. I am aware of the many theories as to why this discrepancy exists, but I can't help but to wonder if Blair, Devlin, and Wood (along with many others) were at some point intended to be a part of the T205 set and somehow snuck into the T202s.

Great research as always, Brian!

Actually Devlin is in the T205 set, just not as a Rustler, a team he did not join until 1912. I don't know about Wood, but Blair likely was not intended for a T205 release because he had only played 6 games in the Bigs during 1910. Catching half the games for NY in 1911 probably earned him a spot in T202, but ironically, he was sent to Rochester after the 1911 season as his T202 card notes, so arguably he belongs in neither set.

[marcdelpercio]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Actually Devlin is in the T205 set, just not as a Rustler, a team he did not join until 1912. I don't know about Wood, but Blair likely was not intended for a T205 release because he had only played 6 games in the Bigs during 1910. Catching half the games for NY in 1911 probably earned him a spot in T202, but ironically, he was sent to Rochester after the 1911 season as his T202 card notes, so arguably he belongs in neither set.

Yes, Devlin (Giants) is in the T205 set, but not Devlin (Rustlers). Interestingly, the other two T205 Subjects that have multiple team variations (Graham and Shean) are also both pictured with the Rustlers in one of those variations. The fact that Devlin did not join the Rustlers until 1912 further points to the possibility that there may have been many more T205 subjects (with "T205" artwork obviously completed for at least these three) that were intended to be produced later in the print run, into 1912 perhaps, but never were for whatever reason, leaving the final subject count well short of the 400 number advertised.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by marcdelpercio

Yes, Devlin (Giants) is in the T205 set, but not Devlin (Rustlers). Interestingly, the other two T205 Subjects that have multiple team variations (Graham and Shean) are also both pictured with the Rustlers in one of those variations. The fact that Devlin did not join the Rustlers until 1912 further points to the possibility that there may have been many more T205 subjects (with "T205" artwork obviously completed for at least these three) that were intended to be produced later in the print run, into 1912 perhaps, but never were for whatever reason, leaving the final subject count well short of the 400 number advertised.

Yes, Devlin Rustlers is on a card end panel, Matty is on the other, the card being 'Too Late for Devlin.' I mention this because the center panel, many believe, is Joe Jackson. I know this has been discussed many times, but I don't know if it has ever been confirmed that it is indeed the "Shoeless One."