When did the true "series" concept begin

[darkhorse9]

In the post war era, issuing cards in series was very specific. 1st series had cards 1- x , second series had the next group, and so on. You couldn't find cards from a different series in a pack from a later series.

When did that take hold? Lots of pre war sets had what we're called "series" but they often included previously released cards. T-206 is a prime example of that

When did the strict, series one, series two, series three...begin?

[toppcat]

1933 Goudey comes to mind as a possibility, but the idea that postwar cards from earlier series were not included with those from later ones is only partially true, it depended on various factors at Topps and Bowman, to name the two biggest manufacturers.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Wouldn't OJs and T206s be considered distributed in series, granted over a few years?

Or was the question asked for sets distributed in a single year?

[rats60]

Wouldn't it be 1956? Wasn't 1955 skip numbered? Plus there are 4 high numbers that were never issued. 1933 Goudey was issued in series, but they were definitely skip numbered.

1956 had 1-100 in the 1st series, 101-180 in the 2nd, 181-260 in the 3rd and 261-340 in the 4th. From 1957-1973, Topps followed this same pattern.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rats60

Wouldn't it be 1956? Wasn't 1955 skip numbered? Plus there are 4 high numbers that were never issued. 1933 Goudey was issued in series, but they were definitely skip numbered.

1956 had 1-100 in the 1st series, 101-180 in the 2nd, 181-260 in the 3rd and 261-340 in the 4th. From 1957-1973, Topps followed this same pattern.

Why would skip numbered not account? Why would 1952 and other non-skip numbered sets before 1956 not count? Release by series begins long before Topps or Bowman.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by G1911

Why would skip numbered not account? Why would 1952 and other non-skip numbered sets before 1956 not count? Release by series begins long before Topps or Bowman.

Skip numbered doesn't count because the OP specifically stated he wanted the first series to be 1-x, not 1-x minus certain numbers.

I am interpreting "take hold" as not using gimmicks like withholding numbers to get collectors to buy more packs like in 1953. Prior to 1956, having a specific group of cards as a series was not a standard practice.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rats60

Skip numbered doesn't count because the OP specifically stated he wanted the first series to be 1-x, not 1-x minus certain numbers.

I am interpreting "take hold" as not using gimmicks like withholding numbers to get collectors to buy more packs like in 1953. Prior to 1956, having a specific group of cards as a series was not a standard practice.

52 Topps, Bowmans and 1934 Goudey don’t count because? Even if we insist on card numbers and no skip numbered cards it begins long before 1956.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by G1911

52 Topps, Bowmans and 1934 Goudey don’t count because? Even if we insist on card numbers and no skip numbered cards it begins long before 1956.

They don't count because Topps and Bowman skip numbered their 1955 sets.

[brass_rat]

I would have said T210 has strict Series 1 through 8 designation. While the backs say Series X, they aren't numbered and only say "Large Assortment".

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rats60

They don't count because Topps and Bowman skip numbered their 1955 sets.

Ignoring numerous preceding sets to only use Topps even, it does not begin with 1952 Topps, because 1955 Topps was skip numbered with the 4 missing numbers and the 90-99 block. That makes a lot of sense.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by G1911

Ignoring numerous preceding sets to only use Topps even, it does not begin with 1952 Topps, because 1955 Topps was skip numbered with the 4 missing numbers and the 90-99 block. That makes a lot of sense.

Yes, it does. The OP asked when numbering each series consecutively took hold. Before 1956, it was random. Starting in 1956 it became the standard to issue cards in series like that.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rats60

Yes, it does. The OP asked when numbering each series consecutively took hold. Before 1956, it was random. Starting in 1956 it became the standard to issue cards in series like that.

It did not begin in 1956. Even if we ignore the begin, 1958 and 1961 are skip numbered too by your rules dismissing 1955, so 1956 isn’t the start of a lengthy uninterrupted string even.

[esd10]

The m116 was distributed in different series

[rats60]

Originally Posted by G1911

It did not begin in 1956. Even if we ignore the begin, 1958 and 1961 are skip numbered too by your rules dismissing 1955, so 1956 isn’t the start of a lengthy uninterrupted string even.

It became the standard with the 1956 Topps set and that is what the OP asked. 1961 Topps was not skip numbered. 587 Warren Spahn on the checklist was misprinted and is an uncorrected error card. Card #145 in 1958 was pulled from the set and removed from later printings of second series checklists.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rats60

It became the standard with the 1956 Topps set and that is what the OP asked. 1961 Topps was not skip numbered. 587 Warren Spahn on the checklist was misprinted and is an uncorrected error card. Card #145 in 1958 was pulled from the set and removed from later printings of second series checklists.

I mean "begin" is the thread title, but alright. If 1955 is skip numbered and thus does not count because of the 4 missing cards, then so is 1961 because of the 2 missing cards and 1958 because of the missing card. If any set issued before a set with skipped numbers doesn't count, a bizarre stipulation designed to cut out 1952, then why isn't that rule consistently applied? Is the barrier exactly 4 missing numbers and any other quantity doesn't count? If you just completely make up enough weird rules to cut out every other option you can arrive at any desired answer .

In actual reality, series of cards released to constitute a set long predates Topps.

EDIT: 1961 is actually missing 3 of the numbers. So the strict numbering in sequential order rule made up to arrive at a desired set can only be enforced if there are 4 or more, unless that still violates the 1956 selection, in which case new rules will be made up to force 1956.

[rats60]

1955 Topps and Bowman are skip numbered because the first series of each are not 1-x as the OP required making 1956 the first year when this practice "took hold."

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rats60

1955 Topps and Bowman are skip numbered because the first series of each are not 1-x as the OP required making 1956 the first year when this practice "took hold."

So by skip numbered, you mean series 1 and only series 1 has to every card in sequential order without skipped numbers, so it's okay for 1958 and 1961 but not other set? Or 1958 and 1961 are not skip numbered because those numbers were never issued? Thus there can be missing numbers, but the cards actually released must be in order without a skipped number but ? And 1952 Topps does not count because 1953 had skipped numbers and we are ignoring the thread title question to use your definition of "took hold", and 1934 Goudey and C46 doesn't count because there weren't enough numbered sets after it to 'take hold' as to take hold requires X quantity of immediate successors from the same firm or something, but those successors can skip numbers entirely if they follow 1956 Topps, and Play Ball's don't count because they just don't or something.

I'm going to say it's 1982 Topps because I've made up some extra parameters to make nothing else qualify for consideration, and give up on discerning all the unstated additional rules it takes to arrive at the desired result and only that result.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by G1911

So by skip numbered, you mean series 1 and only series 1 has to every card in sequential order without skipped numbers, so it's okay for 1958 and 1961 but not other set? Or 1958 and 1961 are not skip numbered because those numbers were never issued? Thus there can be missing numbers, but the cards actually released must be in order without a skipped number but ? And 1952 Topps does not count because 1953 had skipped numbers and we are ignoring the thread title question to use your definition of "took hold", and 1934 Goudey and C46 doesn't count because there weren't enough numbered sets after it to 'take hold' as to take hold requires X quantity of immediate successors from the same firm or something, but those successors can skip numbers entirely if they follow 1956 Topps, and Play Ball's don't count because they just don't or something.

I'm going to say it's 1982 Topps because I've made up some extra parameters to make nothing else qualify for consideration, and give up on discerning all the unstated additional rules it takes to arrive at the desired result and only that result.

Is the concept of issuing cards in order too hard to grasp? The OP said series 1 is 1-x. Series 2 is x+1 to y. Series 3 is y+1 to z. 1958 is not skip numbered. Series 2 89-176, that 145 was pulled is irrelevant to the OP. 1961 is not skip numbered. Series 7 is 523-587, that #587 was misprinted 589 is irrelevant.

Skip numbered is when you don't issue cards in order. Series 1 of 1955 Topps is 1-90 and 100-110. Bowman did the same thing with their first series. From 1933-1955 Goudey, Bowman, Leaf and Topps used skip numbering when issuing series. This was done to trick kids into buying more cards even though they may have had all the cards in that series.

In summary 1933-1955 Issuing series 1-x was not the accepted practice, sets maybe skip number or issued in order. 1956-2024 issuing series 1-x is the accepted practice.