Greatest All-Time All-Stars Sets

[robw1959]

Which MLB set composes the greatest all-star team ever assembled? Assuming any player in a particular set is at their peak level of career performance, which set would you choose? Mine would be the 1933 Goudey set:

1B Gehrig
2B Hornsby
SS Vaughn
3B Traynor
C Dickey
RF Ruth
CF Speaker
LF Ott
LP Grove
RP Dean

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by robw1959

Which MLB set composes the greatest all-star team ever assembled? Assuming any player in a particular set is at their peak level of career performance, which set would you choose? Mine would be the 1933 Goudey set:

1B Gehrig
2B Hornsby
SS Vaughn
3B Traynor
C Dickey
RF Ruth
CF Speaker
LF Ott
LP Grove
RP Dean

I’ll offer 1956 Topps into the conversation. If the Mick at first feels like a stretch, there is Gil Hodges. Definitely some other positions where one might make a swap: Berra for Campy, for instance.

1B Mickey Mantle
2B Jackie Robinson
SS Ernie Banks
3B Eddie Mathews
C Roy Campanella
RF Hank Aaron
CF Willie Mays
LF Ted Williams
LP Sandy Koufax
RP Bob Feller

[Rhotchkiss]

T206 has

1B Frank Chance/Hal Chase
2B Nap Lajoie
SS Honus Wagner
3rd Homerun Baker
OF Ty Cobb
OF Tris Speaker
OF Sam Crawford
C Roger Bresnahan

Pitchers:
Walter Johnson
Cy Young
Christy Mathewson
Eddie Plank

[Peter_Spaeth]

1968 Topps
c Bench
1b Mantle
2b Morgan
ss cheat with Banks otherwise Aparicio?
3b Brooks (Mathews may have still had a card?)
Of Mays, Aaron, F Robinson/Clemente
Rp Gibson, Seaver, Ryan
Lp Carlton

[molenick]

Mathews was card #58 (as a Tiger). I like this team because Mantle was actually at first at the time. But I guess you lose Banks if you look at it that way.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by molenick

Mathews was card #58 (as a Tiger). I like this team because Mantle was actually at first at the time. But I guess you lose Banks if you look at it that way.

Aparicio the only arguably weak link then. Really strong otherwise.

[Touch'EmAll]

The 1976 Topps All Time All Stars subset - collected as a kid, does this count ?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

1976 Topps

1b Gehrig
2b Hornsby
SS Wagner
3b Traynor
OF Ruth
OF Cobb
OF Williams
C Cochrane
RHP Johnson
LHP Grove

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

The 1976 Topps All Time All Stars subset - collected as a kid, does this count ?

Dude two minutes before me, really? I shouldn't have typed out the joke.

[mrreality68]

1914 Cracker Jacks

1B Frank Chance
2B Nap Lajoie or Eddie Collins
SS Honus Wagner
3rd Zack Wheat
OF Ty Cobb
OF Tris Speaker
OF Joe Jackson
C Roger Bresnahan

Pitchers:
Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
Eddie Plank

[paul]

I this picking Tris Speaker from the '33 Goudey set is cheating. He was not an active player. If the Goudey Speaker is ok, then you might as well pick the 1976 Topps all time greats set, or something assembled from the all time greats in the 1940 Play Ball set.

[brianp-beme]

How about the 1916 M101-4 set lineup? Pretty darn strong with the exception of Catcher and Left Handed Pitcher:

1B George Sisler
2B Eddie Collins
SS Honus Wagner
3B Frank Baker
C Ray Schalk
RF Babe Ruth
CF Ty Cobb
LF Joe Jackson
LHP Eppa Rixey
RHP Walter Johnson


Brian

[molenick]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

1976 Topps

1b Gehrig
2b Hornsby
SS Wagner
3b Traynor
OF Ruth
OF Cobb
OF Williams
C Cochrane
RHP Johnson
LHP Grove

You could use Bench at c and Schmidt at 3b if you go out of the subset (and make Aaron DH if you wanted one).

[molenick]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

How about the 1916 M101-5 set lineup? Pretty darn strong with the exception of Catcher and Left Handed Pitcher:

1B George Sisler
2B Eddie Collins
SS Honus Wagner
3B Frank Baker
C Bobby Wallace
RF Babe Ruth
CF Ty Cobb
LF Joe Jackson
LHP Eppa Rixey
RHP Walter Johnson


Brian

I like this one too, except Wallace never played catcher. Schalk, maybe?

Edited to add: Didn't remember that Bresnahan was still playing, so I suggest him at C.

[judsonhamlin]

Not too shabby:

C Hartnett
1b Sisler
2b Collins
ss Hornsby
3b Baker
Of Ruth
Of Cobb
Of Speaker
RHP Johnson
LHP Rixey

Frisch, Heilmann, Alexander & Wood also in the mix

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by molenick

I like this one too, except Wallace never played catcher. Schalk, maybe?

Edited to add: Didn't remember that Bresnahan was still playing, so I suggest him at C.

Nice catch(er). I actually had Bresnahan as my catcher, but then inexplicably decided to give Wallace a shot at the position, perhaps because I thought he had a face that would look good behind a catcher's mask.

Brian

[Peter_Spaeth]

1991 Topps and Traded
c Ivan Rodriguez
1b F Thomas
2b Biggio or Alomar
ss Ozzie
3b Boggs
of Griffey, Bonds, Rickey
rp Clemens, Maddux, Ryan
lp R Johnson

[oldjudge]

Brian—Cobb was not in the M101-5 set but he was in the M101-4. My M101-4 team is:

C-Schalk
1B-Sisler
2B-Collins
SS-Wagner
3B-Lajoie (he played a little third)
OF-Jackson
OF-Cobb
OF-Ruth
P1-Johnson
P2-Alexander

Manager-McGraw

I’d feel comfortable going to battle with this team against any of the others mentioned. The Collins McCarthy type sets of 1917 might even be slightly better, losing Lajoie but gaining Hornsby. With that group I would play Hornsby at second and Collins at third.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Brian—Cobb was not in the M101-5 set but he was in the M101-4. My M101-4 team is:

Another nice catch...I am adjusting post by making my set to be M101-4, and also changing out Schalk for Bresnahan, because Bresnahan is not in the M101-4 set.

Brian

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by molenick

You could use Bench at c and Schmidt at 3b if you go out of the subset (and make Aaron DH if you wanted one).

Good call, definitely improves the roster.

[packs]

How about the 49 Bowman set?

C - Campy / Berra
1B - Johnny Mize
2B - Bobby Doerr
SS - Jackie
3B - George Kell
LF - Ralph Kiner
CF - Duke Snider
RF - Larry Doby

P - Bob Feller
P - Warren Spahn
P - Robin Roberts
p - Bob Lemon
P - Early Wynn

CL - Satchel Paige

Manager - Lou Boudreau

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

How about the 49 Bowman set?

C - Campy / Berra
1B - Johnny Mize
2B - Bobby Doerr
SS - Jackie
3B - George Kell
LF - Ralph Kiner
CF - Duke Snider
RF - Larry Doby

P - Bob Feller
P - Warren Spahn
P - Robin Roberts
p - Bob Lemon
P - Early Wynn

CL - Satchel Paige

Manager - Lou Boudreau

Jump over to Leaf and you can substitute Williams, Musial and DiMaggio.

[packs]

I guess I was also looking at it like you'd have the set. I prefer the Bowmans over the Leaf on average, though I've always thought that Ted Williams Leaf card is one of the nicest of all cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I guess I was also looking at it like you'd have the set. I prefer the Bowmans over the Leaf on average, though I've always thought that Ted Williams Leaf card is one of the nicest of all cards.

49B has an awful lot of HOF RCs. Off my head, Ashburn, Campanella, Kell, Snider, Hodges, Lemon,, Wynn, Roberts

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Jump over to Leaf and you can substitute Williams, Musial and DiMaggio.

and Ruth and Wagner

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

and Ruth and Wagner

I don't count those.

[Casey2296]

-
Cheating a bit but the 1972 Kellogg All Time Greats Set. Soft spot in my heart since this was the set that inspired a 10 year olds fascination with pre-war.
-

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

1914 Cracker Jacks

1B Frank Chance
2B Nap Lajoie or Eddie Collins
SS Honus Wagner
3rd Zack Wheat
OF Ty Cobb
OF Tris Speaker
OF Joe Jackson
C Roger Bresnahan

Pitchers:
Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
Eddie Plank

Zack Wheat only played the outfield during his ML career. Frank Baker or Heinie Zimmerman seem like more appropriate 3B choices from this set.

[KCRfan1]

Love to the 1973 set!

C Johnny Bench
1B Willie McCovey
2B Joe Morgan
SS Luis Aparicio
3B Mike Schmidt
OF Hank Aaron
OF Willie Mays
OF Roberto Clemente
RHP Nolan Ryan
LHP Steve Carlton

Left off the roster: Reggie Jackson, Pete Rose, Al Kaline, Frank Robinson, Brooks Robinson, Thurman Munson, Yaz ( can't spell his name ), Carlton Fisk, Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, Fergie Jenkins, Bob Gibson, Juan Marichal, Gaylord Perry, Jim Hunter, and others.

Aside from Munson, this set is loaded with HoF's.

[Peter_Spaeth]

2012 Topps
c Mauer
1b Pujols
2b Cano
ss Jeter
3b A Rod
of Trout Harper Ichiro
p Verlander, Scherzer, Kershaw, Rivera
dh Ortiz

[rats60]

1958 Topps
C Yogi Berra
1B Stan Musial
2B Bill Mazeroski
3B Eddie Mathews
SS Ernie Banks
LF Ted Williams
CF Willie Mays
RF Roberto Clemente
LHP Sandy Koufax
RHP Don Drysdale
CL Hoyt Wilhelm
Reserves Mickey Mantle and Hank Aaron

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

1958 Topps
C Yogi Berra
1B Stan Musial
2B Bill Mazeroski
3B Eddie Mathews
SS Ernie Banks
LF Ted Williams
CF Willie Mays
RF Roberto Clemente
LHP Sandy Koufax
RHP Don Drysdale
CL Hoyt Wilhelm
Reserves Mickey Mantle and Hank Aaron

I would take Roberts over Drysdale. Spahn over Koufax. We've done Aaron and Clemente many times lol so not going back there.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

The 1976 Topps All Time All Stars subset - collected as a kid, does this count ?

Nah!

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

1976 Topps

1b Gehrig
2b Hornsby
SS Wagner
3b Traynor
OF Ruth
OF Cobb
OF Williams
C Cochrane
RHP Johnson
LHP Grove

That's a stretch, but even so, it looks like six of these guys are in the '33 Goudey set.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by paul

I this picking Tris Speaker from the '33 Goudey set is cheating. He was not an active player. If the Goudey Speaker is ok, then you might as well pick the 1976 Topps all time greats set, or something assembled from the all time greats in the 1940 Play Ball set.

It's a fair point. I didn't really consider players outside of their playing days being included in later sets. In that case, the 1960 Fleer Greats would also merit consideration. Let's allow the Goudey set strictly because it isn't a historic set or subset like those others. And yes, some may say it's cheating for them to have issued Lajoie and Speaker, but they did it, so it counts in my humble opinion.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

How about the 1916 M101-4 set lineup? Pretty darn strong with the exception of Catcher and Left Handed Pitcher:

1B George Sisler
2B Eddie Collins
SS Honus Wagner
3B Frank Baker
C Ray Schalk
RF Babe Ruth
CF Ty Cobb
LF Joe Jackson
LHP Eppa Rixey
RHP Walter Johnson


Brian

Terrific pick, Brian. You've got, arguably, at least four of the greatest to ever play that position in this lineup.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would take Roberts over Drysdale. Spahn over Koufax. We've done Aaron and Clemente many times lol so not going back there.

I don't know why. Koufax ERA 2.76 ERA+ 131 Spahn ERA 3.09 ERA+ 119. Drysdale ERA 2.95 ERA+ 121 Roberts ERA 3.42 ERA+ 113. A pitcher's job is to prevent the other team from scoring runs.

[judsonhamlin]

C Zimmer
1b Beckley
2b Lajoie
ss G. Davis
3b J. Collins
Of Wagner
Of Delahanty
Of Keeler
Lhp Waddell
Rhp Mathewson

And Young, Plank, McGinnity, Joss, Kelley, etc

[packs]

1936 World Wide Gum

C - Mickey Cochrane
1B - Lou Gehrig
2B - Charlie Gehringer
SS - Arky Vaughan
3B - Frankie Frisch
LF - Hank Greenberg
CF - Joe DiMaggio
RF - Paul Waner

P - Dizzy Dean
P - Lefty Grove
P - Red Ruffing
P - Waite Hoyt
P - Wes Ferrell

Manager - Connie Mack

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Brian—Cobb was not in the M101-5 set but he was in the M101-4. My M101-4 team is:

C-Schalk
1B-Sisler
2B-Collins
SS-Wagner
3B-Lajoie (he played a little third)
OF-Jackson
OF-Cobb
OF-Ruth
P1-Johnson
P2-Alexander

Manager-McGraw

I’d feel comfortable going to battle with this team against any of the others mentioned. The Collins McCarthy type sets of 1917 might even be slightly better, losing Lajoie but gaining Hornsby. With that group I would play Hornsby at second and Collins at third.

Good point here about Lajoie playing third base. I hadn't considered that angle, but it only strengthens my '33 Goudey selections because I can substitute Jimmy Foxx for Bill Dickey at catcher. So my lineup now looks like this:

1B Gehrig
2B Hornsby
SS Vaughn
3B Traynor
C Foxx
RF Ruth
CF Speaker
LF Ott
LP Grove
RP Dean

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't count those.

They were old timers at that point. I like the T206 team...
.

[robw1959]

Yes, but my original post assumes peak player performances. In other words, it's not really the time period that counts in making top All-Star choices; it's really the players themselves that count.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

I don't know why. Koufax ERA 2.76 ERA+ 131 Spahn ERA 3.09 ERA+ 119. Drysdale ERA 2.95 ERA+ 121 Roberts ERA 3.42 ERA+ 113. A pitcher's job is to prevent the other team from scoring runs.

Part of that is 50s vs. 60s I suspect. Would you take Chief Bender and Jack Chesbro over Tom Seaver and Roger Clemens?

[Peter_Spaeth]

WAR7

R. Roberts 55.1
Spahn 51.5
Koufax 46.0
Drysdale 44.7

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Part of that is 50s vs. 60s I suspect. Would you take Chief Bender and Jack Chesbro over Tom Seaver and Roger Clemens?

Tom Seaver ERA+ 127
Chief Bender ERA+ 112
Jack Chesbro ERA + 110

Seaver was a lot better than either Bender or Chesbro. Clemens was a doper.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

Tom Seaver ERA+ 127
Chief Bender ERA+ 112
Jack Chesbro ERA + 110

Seaver was a lot better than either Bender or Chesbro. Clemens was a doper.

Fair. Statistically overall, though, to me Roberts looks like a significantly better pitcher than Drysdale. Spahn and Koufax is a question I guess of how much emphasis you place on a 5 year peak period, although I'm not sure Spahn would be that far behind as he is well ahead in 7 year peak. And part of Koufax's great ERA is certainly the Dodger Stadium effect. One run higher on the road as I recall.

[MikeGarcia]

!939 penny arcade "Exhibit" cards. 1939 was a helluva year for talent on the diamond .
I'll start with these guys :

But we're just scratching the surface :

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

1976 Topps

1b Gehrig
2b Hornsby
SS Wagner
3b Traynor
OF Ruth
OF Cobb
OF Williams
C Cochrane
RHP Johnson
LHP Grove

All of which are also found in 1961 Fleer All-Time Greats.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Fair. Statistically overall, though, to me Roberts looks like a significantly better pitcher than Drysdale. Spahn and Koufax is a question I guess of how much emphasis you place on a 5 year peak period, although I'm not sure Spahn would be that far behind as he is well ahead in 7 year peak. And part of Koufax's great ERA is certainly the Dodger Stadium effect. One run higher on the road as I recall.

ERA+ adjusts for home park and opponents. Spahn pitched for 21 seasons and he only had 2 seasons that were equal or better than Koufax's career average ERA+ of 131. Spahn's peak wasn't close that that of Koufax's.

Roberts ERA+ of 113 is very low for a HOF pitcher. Out of 68 MLB starting pitchers in the HOF, Roberts is tied for 53rd. Bob Lemon or Jim Bunning would have been better picks within the 1958 set, but Drysdale was the best right handed starter at preventing runs within the set.

[Peter_Spaeth]

You can certainly get to different places using different numbers, understood. Using JAWS/WAR/WAR 7, Roberts>Drysdale and Spahn>>Koufax and I've found those metrics to be pretty good. For what it is or isn't worth, Bill James in 2003 ranked Roberts in his top 20 pitchers.