Collectors Vault redemption fee

[russkcpa]

My cards were moved from Goldin Vault to Collectors Vault after Collectors acquired Goldin. I am not impressed with the Collectors vault. The vault site sucks and the values assigned for insurance purposes are ridiculously low.....let's leave it at that. I could be more specific but its boring. Does anyone know if there is a Collectors "fulfillment fee" Telephone customer service is useless.

[raulus]

Hi Russ -

Sorry to hear that you're not enjoying the vault. You raise some important issues (among other things) that I think have scared off most of the rest of us from participating. Since I don't use any vaults, including this one, I don't have any personal experience.

But...according to the website, if you take your items out within 90 days, there's a 3% fee. And shipping is $1 per item. They also claim to not charge sales tax, although there is some exciting weasel language about how you are still responsible for paying for your own tax (like good old use tax). I understand some other vaults do charge you the sales tax, so hopefully they don't stick you with it here.

My experience reading a lot of the advertising and marketing pieces is that all of the vaults have been pushing hard to get people to sign up and send everything to the vault, so they've been offering some pretty low rates and fees on everything. Hopefully the low rates they're quoting on their website are accurate, and they don't hit you up with some additional garbage fees.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes if you do ask to get your items back.

[ullmandds]

Oy gavault!!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

My cards were moved from Goldin Vault to Collectors Vault after Collectors acquired Goldin. I am not impressed with the Collectors vault. The vault site sucks and the values assigned for insurance purposes are ridiculously low.....let's leave it at that. I could be more specific but its boring. Does anyone know if there is a Collectors "fulfillment fee" Telephone customer service is useless.

Hey Russ,

Like others, I never have, and probably never will, use a vault service, so can't directly answer your question either. However, in your case I would sincerely hope since you did not voluntarily choose to move your items from one vault to another that they cannot just impose such a fee on you should you wish to remove your cards from this new vault. I would think/expect that from a legal standpoint, the new vault company is required/compelled to treat and handle charges for your items just as they were for when they were held by Goldin in their vault, in accordance with whatever contract/agreement you originally signed or digitally confirmed with Goldin. Unless you have since signed/agreed to a new agreement/contract with the Collectors organization, or there was some clause or portion of your original Goldin agreement/contract that gave them the right to sell/transfer your contract and then allowed the acquiring company to arbitrarily amend or change your contract at their sole discretion. I would doubt such an arbitrary change could be made without your knowledge and/or permission otherwise, but you never know what some companies and their attorneys will try to get away with.

I would think you might want to go back and review your original contract/agreement with Goldin, and operate under the assumption that the terms and charges for keeping your collection in a vault are still subject to that original agreement's specific terms and conditions. I'd then continue to try contacting an actual human at the new vault company now holding your items and get confirmation that your original contract/agreement terms with Goldin are in fact still in place. And if they say no they are not, I would further inquire how they could have been changed without your knowledge and consent.

Hopefully you can finally get through and get some answers, but first make sure which agreement/contract is actually still in effect and force in regards to your vault holdings. Good luck, and do come back and let us know what you find out.

Additionally, since I don't use and know about these vaults, have a question for you. Under your original agreement/contract with Goldin, did you have some kind of monthly or other periodic rental charge for them holding your cards in their vault? If so, I can maybe understand why a vault would possibly put in place and then enforce such a "fulfillment fee" if you suddenly decided to remove cards from their vault before some agreed upon minimum period of time, to make up for the loss of rental revenue. Or to also make up for the loss of the profit they may have expected if you sold your cards through them or a related company of theirs at some future date. Sort of akin to the idea an early withdrawal or early payoff penalty that many institutions will put in their agreements to insure they maximize their profits. Good luck in whatever you end up deciding to do. But do let us know what you find out.

[mrreality68]

will not use Vault either.

As a collector I like to have it closer to me plus as discussed in past threads I have some reservations about them

They work well for some especially people that are buying to resell them the vault saves them the tax, they do not have to touch the cards to receive and sell them.

[Jewish-collector]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Oy gavault!!

Good one, Pete !!!

beer chug.gifbeer chug.gifbeer chug.gifbeer chug.gifbeer chug.gif

[russkcpa]

Originally Posted by BobC

Hey Russ,

Under your original agreement/contract with Goldin, did you have some kind of monthly or other periodic rental charge for them holding your cards in their vault? If so, I can maybe understand why a vault would possibly put in place and then enforce such a "fulfillment fee" if you suddenly decided to remove cards from their vault before some agreed upon minimum period of time, to make up for the loss of rental revenue. Or to also make up for the loss of the profit they may have expected if you sold your cards through them or a related company of theirs at some future date. Sort of akin to the idea an early withdrawal or early payoff penalty that many institutions will put in their agreements to insure they maximize their profits. Good luck in whatever you end up deciding to do. But do let us know what you find out.

Goldin had a 1% fulfillment fee which I had no problem with. Some of my cards are very valuable and any AH would be willing to pay that on my behalf to auction my cards. Goldin ALSO allowed my to establish insurance values which they had to accept and then posted on my vault pages. Collectors only posts values for PSA graded cards....really stupid. I have several valuable SGC and BVG cards as well as some high end dual graded cards. They refuse to assign values non PSA items. They even refuse to assign a value to PSA dual graded cards. these items.

[Fred]

I'm still trying to figure out how companies make their money with "vaults". The only thing I can think of is that these vault companies provide a portal to auction/sell card for which they take a cut of the sale price. If that's the case, then an assumption is that they are hoping the card turns over and over again. Bottom line they don't take a loss if the card value goes down because they don't own it.

Is that about right?

Does anybody know what all the fees that are associated with vault storage?

I just can't wrap my head around this.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

Goldin had a 1% fulfillment fee which I had no problem with. Some of my cards are very valuable and any AH would be willing to pay that on my behalf to auction my cards. Goldin ALSO allowed my to establish insurance values which they had to accept and then posted on my vault pages. Collectors only posts values for PSA graded cards....really stupid. I have several valuable SGC and BVG cards as well as some high end dual graded cards. They refuse to assign values non PSA items. They even refuse to assign a value to PSA dual graded cards. these items.

Hmmmm, interesting. I guess I can see their point in not wanting to possibly do anything to promote some other TPG by posting values that may be comparable to PSA graded cards. I'm assuming (hoping) them not posting values of non-PSA cards, while not what you'd like, doesn't end up costing you anything out of pocket. I would think that Collectors would still be bound by your 1% fulfillment fee that you had with Goldin. I'd still be sure to confirm that as soon as you can with them though.

Another silly question maybe, but just so I'm clear, what exactly did Goldin, and now Collectors, mean by this "fulfillment fee"? Is that a charge you have to pay to remove your cards from their vault, whether by returning them to you, or you having them sell or otherwise move them elsewhere for you? And if so, is that then in lieu of paying them rent on a monthly or some other periodic basis for them keeping your cards in their vault? And also if so, how or what are they basing that 1% "fulfillment fee" on then? Is it based on an agreed upon value of the cards when you first put them into their vault, or do they base it on the value of the cards when you take them out or otherwise remove them, so they get to charge you more if the value increases over time while the cards are held in their vault? My understanding is that PSA decides the value of cards they grade, so they can control what they may have to pay people under their guaranty and so on (and also so they can upcharge people on the grading fees). Are they, as Collectors, maybe doing the same thing in regard to valuing items in their vault so they alone get to determine what the "fulfillment fee" you end up paying is, and you really have no say so in it? Once again, I'd double check the Goldin vault agreement/contract you actually signed/agreed to and see what it says, and then make sure Collectors is abiding by that as well.

Would also be curious to see how Collectors, which also owns PSA, would actually value other TPG cards they are holding in their vault for you, for these "fulfillment fee" calculation purposes. Would they discount say an SGC comparably graded card's value to what they would value it at if in a PSA graded holder, and thus charge you less of a "fulfillment fee", or would they jack it up to charge you what a comparably graded PSA card would go for, to get that extra few dollars out of your pocket? Interesting questions I'd love to know the answers to. LOL

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm still trying to figure out how companies make their money with "vaults". The only thing I can think of is that these vault companies provide a portal to auction/sell card for which they take a cut of the sale price. If that's the case, then an assumption is that they are hoping the card turns over and over again. Bottom line they don't take a loss if the card value goes down because they don't own it.



Is that about right?



Does anybody know what all the fees that are associated with vault storage?



I just can't wrap my head around this.

Hey Fred. Buy any of the cards I have for sale in BST and I will keep it for you. I will only charge you $1 a year for keeping it. Let me know whenever you want it. I will only charge you $10 for sending it to you. Thanks!
Al

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm still trying to figure out how companies make their money with "vaults". The only thing I can think of is that these vault companies provide a portal to auction/sell card for which they take a cut of the sale price. If that's the case, then an assumption is that they are hoping the card turns over and over again. Bottom line they don't take a loss if the card value goes down because they don't own it.

Is that about right?

Does anybody know what all the fees that are associated with vault storage?

I just can't wrap my head around this.

For the most part, I think they make their money by making you a captive, so you’re incentivized to sell through them.

The value proposition to the collector is mostly based around avoiding sales tax, maybe getting a discount on sales fees through their platform, and for someone who prefers to avoid insurance costs and the hassle of actually holding your items at home, they take care of it for you, plus give you a platform to sell quickly when you are ready.

In a perfect world, I think the business model is that everyone loves their vault and every piece in the world stays there. Every time someone sells, it never leaves the facility, and the vault operator just take a cut of the sale by putting the new owner’s name on the ownership file.

I think all of the vault operators are paranoid that they’ll miss out on becoming THE vault, and so they’re all motivated to do everything they can to lower fees and get you to keep your items there instead of using the other guys’ vault.

[doug.goodman]

Wait, so some people actually send their cards to a company to store them?

Wow.

Learn something new every day,
Doug "PT" Goodman

[rjackson44]

I have a vault at my beach house and i have an attack dog for protection

[Exhibitman]

Octavio, my attack dog and your attack dog, cage match PPV?



Well, if I can get mine to stop licking her genitals long enough to pay attention...

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by BobC

Double post.

Originally Posted by BobC

Shoot, now it triple posted.

Congratulations Bob. Glad you got your post average above 2.0.

If I’m not mistaken, I believe Berman called 2.0 the Mendoza Line.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Congratulations Bob. Glad you got your post average above 2.0.

If I’m not mistaken, I believe Berman called 2.0 the Mendoza Line.

LOL

I don't know what it is Frank. I've seen it happen to Leon once in a while as well. Hit the post button once, but it posts it twice. Never had a triple post before.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

I have a vault at my beach house and i have an attack dog for protection

After a careful review of other vault services, I note that they do not offer the cute attack dog feature. Can I pay you to send my collection to your beach house?

[rjackson44]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Octavio, my attack dog and your attack dog, cage match PPV?



Well, if I can get mine to stop licking her genitals long enough to pay attention...

Love this thx adam hope you are well

[MACollector]

If you look at their terms of service at checkout on a Goldin auction, they will give you 30 days notice to remove your stuff if there is a price change.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by BobC

LOL

I don't know what it is Frank. I've seen it happen to Leon once in a while as well. Hit the post button once, but it posts it twice. Never had a triple post before.

The system hiccups sometimes. More so with some members than others. The other dupe posts were deleted, except ones commenting about them.
.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Leon

The system hiccups sometimes. More so with some members than others. The other dupe posts were deleted, except ones commenting about them.
.

Thanks Leon!

[raulus]

Just for giggles, I was reading some of the CU vault details. Here are a few that caught my eye:

They decide how much your item is worth if they lose or damage it!


This was probably the part that alarmed me the most, and prompted me to share it more broadly with the group.

The text, with bolded section that caught my eye:

If CU determines that your item was lost or damaged while in CU's custody or control, you will be compensated based upon (i) the fair market value, or repair or replacement cost, of the item which has been lost or damaged or (ii) the depreciation in value for any item that is partially damaged, as determined by CU's standard procedures, which may include filing a claim with our insurance carrier and/or retaining an independent appraiser. IN NO EVENT WILL THE TOTAL LIABILITY EXCEED THE LESSER OF THE FAIR MARKET VALUE OR THE REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT COST OF THE ITEM. WE RESERVE THE RIGHT, IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DETERMINE THE FAIR MARKET VALUE AND/OR REPAIR AND REPLACEMENT COST FOR AN ITEM THROUGH ANY MEANS AS WE MAY DETERMINE. Such compensation will be your sole and exclusive remedy and our entire liability for any loss or damage to your item while in the custody and control of CU, and you irrevocably release and discharge CU, on your behalf and on behalf of anyone who may claim through or for you, from any liability for loss or damage to the Item(s), including due to the gross negligence of CU or it agents and contractors. CU will not be liable or responsible for any consequential, incidental, special, or indirect damages, including, without limitation, for any intrinsic or sentimental value of an item.

Taxes, like sales taxes:

You're on your own, and don't screw it up!

The text:

CU has no responsibility for collecting or remitting any applicable taxes which may be imposed by law. You are solely responsible for any taxes that may be imposed by any governmental or regulatory body associated with the submission, transfer, or return of any Item(s).

Location:

They can move stuff to another location just because they feel like it.

The text:

You agree that We reserve the right to transfer items stored with the CU Vault Services to another location within the Facility or to another facility for storage ("Substitute Facility"), in our sole discretion, which shall not be considered a deviation from our obligations under the CU Vault Services, provided that the Substitute Facility maintains similar safety and security standards for protection of items.

Fees:

They can charge you whatever they want, although you can get your stuff back if you don't like it.

The text:

We reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to charge service fees for maintenance of a CU Account or the CU Vault Services in the future, upon notice to you. Following notice, you must either (i) provide a payment card or authorization for payment (in the manner requested by CU) to continue the CU Vault Services or (ii) cancel your Account and storage of your item(s) with instructions for the release of your item(s) as set forth in these Terms of Service. If We do not receive a response from you within thirty (30) days following such notice of the applicable service fees, We reserve the right to return such item(s) to you at your risk and expense as provided in these Terms of Service.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Wow. More reasons I don't think I will ever use one of these "vault" services.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

Love this thx adam hope you are well

I am quite certain that the licking of genitals in a cage match is permitted, either your opponents' or your own.