Ted Williams Early Autograph

[rand1com]

Opinions? Authentic or clubhouse?

[tlake22]

Good. Also can see a good Stargell there as well.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

1960's clubhouse.

Stargell good. Looks like Mantle at the bottom, but not enough visible to weigh in on it.

[Steve D]

The ball is in the Heritage auction ending tonight/this morning.

It has a JSA letter from 2014 that calls the Williams a "clubhouse". It also has a Beckett letter from 2022 calling the Williams authentic.

Steve

[rand1com]

Yes, I was considering bidding but with the Williams a clubhouse, I did not consider it worth $2800. If the Williams was authentic, it would have been a lot more.

Beckett probably missed the boat.

Interestingly, Heritage did not mention the discrepancy on the two LOAs. They probably did not even notice it.

PSA/DNA would not give an online opinion on the autograph and neither would Beckett although they obviously authenticated it for the auction house.

I really liked the playing days Mantle, Mays, and Aaron autographs on the Harridge ball but the Williams was the "fly in the ointment."

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Yes, how is this a $2800 ball? Even if the Williams was perfect, Stargell's presence drastically mars what would have been a wonderful theme. Now, it's "just" a HOF ball. Vintage Ted, Aaron, Mays and Mantle, all on their own panel on the same ball?! Wow, that would have been an incredible item. All the biggest guns of the Eisenhower era. But alas, not to be.

I'm guessing that the new owner will be destroying the JSA letter as quickly as it arrives to his house.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

Yes, how is this a $2800 ball? Even if the Williams was perfect, Stargell's presence drastically mars what would have been a wonderful theme. Now, it's "just" a HOF ball. Vintage Ted, Aaron, Mays and Mantle, all on their own panel on the same ball?! Wow, that would have been an incredible item. All the biggest guns of the Eisenhower era. But alas, not to be.

I'm guessing that the new owner will be destroying the JSA letter as quickly as it arrives to his house.

I agree on the JSA LOA. I'm surprised Heritage even showed it. I seriously doubt they noticed the "Clubhouse" designation on the JSA LOA as their description certainly suggested the Williams was authentic as he was specifically noted as being surrounded by the others.

And yes, the Stargell on there hurts it but if Williams had been authentic I would have been a buyer higher than $2800. Of course, likely so would have others.

Their pre auction estimate was $8K. No way it was worth that even with a legit Williams and no Stargell IMO but $4-5K would have been a reasonable price in that scenario.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

What makes this ball even more interesting is the foresightedness of the original person who obtained these autographs. The signature styles all show that, while all examples were vintage, this ball was toted around over a period of years as it was signed. The styles are not all from the same point in time, and these guys were going through transitionary periods in the evolutions of their autographs in the 1960's. It's quite fascinating.

But I'm left at a loss, as I just have to wonder what this collector was thinking in adding Stargell? If the collector had the patience to see this project through, surely he would have known not to add Willie? The only thing I can think of is that Stargell just happened to be beside one of the signers at the time, and the ball was inadvertently passed to him. ETA: I suppose McCovey can be forgiven, but it would have been so much better without his presence as well. Neither of these two greats had reached their ultimate accomplishments, so perhaps the collector didn't have as much foresight as initially ascribed to him!

This reminds me so much of a great story. Years ago, Heritage offered a Ruth/Aaron ball that was unfortunately also signed by Jim Fanning. Talk about a WTF moment! I happened to know Mr. Fanning, who was such a lovely guy. I printed out scans of the baseball and showed it to him and his wife. The wife loved it! I asked Mr. Fanning if he recalled signing this ball, and why. Nearly 40 years after the fact, he still remembered where he was when he signed it! He told me that when he was the Expos' GM, he had arranged for his friend Henry Aaron (people who knew Aaron realized he preferred to be called Henry) to be a guest at a charity dinner in Montreal in 1976. Fanning and Aaron were seated at the same table, and somebody approached Aaron to sign their Ruth ball. It was then passed by Aaron to Fanning, who recalled specifically asking the owner if they really wanted his autograph on the same item! They did, and Fanning obliged...and still recalled signing a Ruth ball so many years later!

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Their pre auction estimate was $8K. No way it was worth that even with a legit Williams and no Stargell IMO but $4-5K would have been a reasonable price in that scenario.

Fully agree. And what a wonderful investment it would have been if everything was perfect/no Stargell.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

What makes this ball even more interesting is the foresightedness of the original person who obtained these autographs. The signature styles all show that, while all examples were vintage, this ball was toted around over a period of years as it was signed. The styles are not all from the same point in time, and these guys were going through transitionary periods in the evolutions of their autographs in the 1960's. It's quite fascinating.

But I'm left at a loss, as I just have to wonder what this collector was thinking in adding Stargell? If the collector had the patience to see this project through, surely he would have known not to add Willie? The only thing I can think of is that Stargell just happened to be beside one of the signers at the time, and the ball was inadvertently passed to him. ETA: I suppose McCovey can be forgiven, but it would have been so much better without his presence as well. Neither of these two greats had reached their ultimate accomplishments, so perhaps the collector didn't have as much foresight as initially ascribed to him!

This reminds me so much of a great story. Years ago, Heritage offered a Ruth/Aaron ball that was unfortunately also signed by Jim Fanning. Talk about a WTF moment! I happened to know Mr. Fanning, who was such a lovely guy. I printed out scans of the baseball and showed it to him and his wife. The wife loved it! I asked Mr. Fanning if he recalled signing this ball, and why. Nearly 40 years after the fact, he still remembered where he was when he signed it! He told me that when he was the Expos' GM, he had arranged for his friend Henry Aaron (people who knew Aaron realized he preferred to be called Henry) to be a guest at a charity dinner in Montreal in 1976. Fanning and Aaron were seated at the same table, and somebody approached Aaron to sign their Ruth ball. It was then passed by Aaron to Fanning, who recalled specifically asking the owner if they really wanted his autograph on the same item! They did, and Fanning obliged...and still recalled signing a Ruth ball so many years later!

Yes, I remember that ball and thinking the same thing. It was not about perceived value at that time as it is now. Based on the Mantle, Mays, and Aaron autos on this ball those 3 were certainly signed in the mid to late 50’s. McCovey didn’t turn up before 1960 and Stargell even a few years later so the collector was diligent in waiting for time to pass before completing his task. I almost bought the ball to have an artist paint over Stargell and Williams but just could not do it.