How rare is T207 Red Cross back?

[chriskim]

How rare are T207 Red Cross backs? I know REA had a found of 8 in 2010. They also mentioned there were only 5 known Red Cross backs before this found. So there are only 13 T207 Red Cross backs out there? That's pretty crazy number.


https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...red-cross-back

https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...red-cross-back

[Yoda]

I know there is a T207 Red Cross backed Weaver out there.

[brass_rat]

If anyone can help me fill in the two others found in the 1980s, I'd appreciate it.
Steve

[Jobu]

I can help you fill in a good chunk of that table. All of the Louisiana Find cards were found in Louisiana.

Originally Posted by brass_rat

If anyone can help me fill in the two others found in the 1980s, I'd appreciate it.
Steve

[ullmandds]

All the Louisiana find cards appeared on the antiques roadshow you can probably find the episode on the Internet it’s quite entertaining.

[edjs]

In this issue of the Trader Speaks, Lew Lipset talks about the first four T207 Red Cross cards, and that an illustration of the cards can be seen in his encyclopedia.

https://thetraderspeaks.com/toj/issu...1_Dec-1988.pdf

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

All the Louisiana find cards appeared on the antiques roadshow you can probably find the episode on the Internet it’s quite entertaining.

https://www.pbs.org/video/antiques-r...ction-ca-1910/

[Tim Kindler]

Gentlemen,
interesting topic and unfortunately i can't help fill in the gaps on the red cross backs....but here is a nice weaver with a cycle back.
Certainly not anywhere close as rare as a red cross back, but none the less a tough, beautiful card.

[brass_rat]

Originally Posted by Jobu

I can help you fill in a good chunk of that table. All of the Louisiana Find cards were found in Louisiana.

I can always count on you buddy!

[brass_rat]

Originally Posted by edjs

In this issue of the Trader Speaks, Lew Lipset talks about the first four T207 Red Cross cards, and that an illustration of the cards can be seen in his encyclopedia.

https://thetraderspeaks.com/toj/issu...1_Dec-1988.pdf

Cool, thanks, Ed!

The illustration in his encyclopedia only has the Blackburne pictured.

I think he was unaware of the Ward Miller, as it originates from a collection found in the 1960s.

The Lange was separate from the first four the Lipset mentions and was found after them.

[ullmandds]

File under never wong...just early! I owned this lowdy for a spell.

[joejo20]

I found a Lange about 15 years ago that I later sold in a Mastro auction. I cannot say for sure if it was part of the 1980s find but I do not believe so. Joe

[frohme]

Hey Chris,

A board member (ZachS ) has a site dedicated to Louisiana Cards, including the Red Cross backs - see https://www.louisianacards.com/t207.html

There are also a few threads on this site that have some of the discussion, e.g.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=190490


There was also a Ward Miller that was auctioned off in 2018 by REA - an image is in the thread linked above

[chriskim]

Originally Posted by frohme

Hey Chris,

A board member (ZachS ) has a site dedicated to Louisiana Cards, including the Red Cross backs - see https://www.louisianacards.com/t207.html

There are also a few threads on this site that have some of the discussion, e.g.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=190490


There was also a Ward Miller that was auctioned off in 2018 by REA - an image is in the thread linked above

What a great resources! Thx Mike!

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I know there is a T207 Red Cross backed Weaver out there.

John, was that T207 Weaver with the Red Cross back in your collection at one time?

[Exhibitman]

I wonder why 20th Century issued Red Cross branded cards are so scarce? T207 Red Cross, T215 Red Cross, T219 Red Cross: all are considered among the rarest T issues.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I wonder why 20th Century issued Red Cross branded cards are so scarce? T207 Red Cross, T215 Red Cross, T219 Red Cross: all are considered among the rarest T issues.

The T215s are tough, but they're still about an order of magnitude more common than the T207s.

[t206fanatic]

great thread, learned a lot about the Red Cross backs.

my contribution:

[Rhotchkiss]

I remember when you got that Jeff - great pick up.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I wonder why 20th Century issued Red Cross branded cards are so scarce? T207 Red Cross, T215 Red Cross, T219 Red Cross: all are considered among the rarest T issues.

Maybe the tobacco sucked so no one bought it.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

John, was that T207 Weaver with the Red Cross back in your collection at one time?

Kevin, sadly not, but I recall seeing one years ago at either Willow Grove or Ft. Washington. Stunning card. Hope all well with you. Best, John

[Bridwell]

The 13 cards you have listed are the only Red Cross cards I've ever seen or heard of. I've been following these for a while now, and I'm the owner of the Adams Red Cross SGC 50, which I believe is the best condition one known. It is possible that there is a 2nd Lange card but I can't confirm that.

[gabrinus]

Cool thread guys...Jerry

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Kevin, sadly not, but I recall seeing one years ago at either Willow Grove or Ft. Washington. Stunning card. Hope all well with you. Best, John

The Weaver used to belong to Bill Heitman. I bought it from him in 1990 or so and sold it. I thought that it may have been to you, but I guess not. It eventually ended up in Leon’s type collection that was sold through Heritage.

[atx840]

Some better scans of Fournier, not my card.

[G1911]

I too have wondered about the unusual scarcity. T60, T219, T215, these are tough, tough cards but they do exist with patience and can be found occasionally. T207 is a whole 'nother level of scarcity. There's less than one sheet worth of known cards, and some subjects that probably were printed are not known at all. I wonder if these were even actually issued.

[chriskim]

one thing i notice is even this T207 Red Cross back is ultra rare but there are no buyer of them, i guess that's becuz T207 isn't that popular compare to t206/205.

[LincolnVT]

Even some of the "more common" red Cycle backs are pretty rare...like less than 40 combined PSA and SGC pop charts, right? I've always loved the haunting look of this set. Fit to be seen on the wall of a Scoobydoo episode. I can almost see the players eyes shifting back and forth.

[LincolnVT]

Boo!

[Yoda]

Does anybody know what backs are on the Irving Lewis card, either with or without insignia? I sold one in the last LOTG auction with a Broadleaf reverse. A Red Cycle would look cool.

[Exhibitman]

Scooby Doo!



And I'd have gotten away with it if not for those pesky kids!

[brass_rat]

Originally Posted by chriskim

one thing i notice is even this T207 Red Cross back is ultra rare but there are no buyer of them, i guess that's becuz T207 isn't that popular compare to t206/205.

I'm a collector of them. Here are two in my collection.

I also think the red Cycle backs look great, but those aren't in the scope of my collecting.

[frohme]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Does anybody know what backs are on the Irving Lewis card, either with or without insignia? I sold one in the last LOTG auction with a Broadleaf reverse. A Red Cycle would look cool.

Hey John,

I've cataloged the following for Mr. Irving Lewis...:

• emblem with 4 "usual" Broadleaf-class backs, but not Red Cross to date.
• no-emblem is found with at least Broadleaf and Anon Factory 3. Those that have one could chime in and help fill in any holes in what's out there.

--
Mike

[frohme]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

If anyone can help me fill in the two others found in the 1980s, I'd appreciate it.
Steve

Hey Steve - meant to say this earlier... some would say that Mr Miller was on of those two "missing"/unremembered from the 80's. I don't know and haven't found much in the way of reference to confirm/refute any statements to that effect, though.

--
Mike

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by frohme

Hey John,

I've cataloged the following for Mr. Irving Lewis...:

• emblem with 4 "usual" Broadleaf-class backs, but not Red Cross to date.
• no-emblem is found with at least Broadleaf and Anon Factory 3. Those that have one could chime in and help fill in any holes in what's out there.

--
Mike

Thanks, Mike, very helpful.

[brass_rat]

Originally Posted by frohme

Hey Steve - meant to say this earlier... some would say that Mr Miller was on of those two "missing"/unremembered from the 80's. I don't know and haven't found much in the way of reference to confirm/refute any statements to that effect, though.

--
Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the info / reminder. I went back to my notes that point to this informative thread started in 2014. I added some notes to it in 2018, but after a quick re-read, I'm not sure if the Miller was in the group of four from 1983 or if it was confused with the existence of the REA Miller that is from a much earlier collection.

You wrote some good posts in this thread:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=190490

Thanks,
Steve

[frohme]

Thanks, Steve,

I was clearly of two minds throughout the life of that thread. Have not gone back to try an put a timeline to who said what, and when to make some sense of things, but I agree, given the provenance of the Miller, it seem unlikely that it was one of the original four.

--
Mike