Roberto Clemente Signed Baseballs

[kemdawg]

Hey everyone. I'm typically a card guy, but I picked up 3 Pirates Team balls (all have Clemente auto's on them) over the weekend at an antique store. I'm going to send them in to PSA for authentication, but as I was going through the options, I became more confused on which options to select for these three balls. It appears my options are:
1. Authentication only
2. Authentication plus grading

None of the balls are perfectly white (slight yellowing/browning on each).

The first ball pictured is incredibly nice with sharp signatures from most of the players, and the Clemente auto is incredibly nice. According to the paperwork on this ball, it is from the Pirates 1960 World Series year. If I get this graded, can I get just the Clemente auto graded or is the ball graded according to all the autos and condition of the ball?

The second ball pictured is very nice, but not as good as the first. The Clemente auto is very solid, but not perfect.

The third ball pictures is the worst, but still not bad. The Clemente auto is isn't quite as sharp as the first two balls.

I'd love suggestions on whether I should get one or more balls graded or should I simply authenticate them? My goal is to sell them so the purpose of the grading would be to increase their value.

I can post more pics, but didn't want to "muddy the water" with all the different angles of all the balls.

Thank you for you input!
Travis

[Bpm0014]

That first ball is gorgeous. I’m super anti-authentication papers etc. but the hobby has slightly shifted in the last year or 2. Many people have become investors now rather than collectors. And many of these new investors are not as adroit in knowing autographs etc. Therefore I’m going against my better judgment and would suggest getting paperwork on all 3 if you plan on reselling them anytime soon. At minimum, the first 2...

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Not sure I'd be bothered getting the top one graded, as the Murtaugh signature is clubhouse--a very typical issue for that era--so it's going to sell for much less than it would have if the signature was legitimate (even though the Clemente is very nice).

Just happened to catch the tail end of another clubhouse Murtaugh on the second ball as well.

[kemdawg]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

Not sure I'd be bothered getting the top one graded, as the Murtaugh signature is clubhouse--a very typical issue for that era--so it's going to sell for much less than it would have if the signature was legitimate (even though the Clemente is very nice).

Just happened to catch the tail end of another clubhouse Murtaugh on the second ball as well.

That's super interesting on the Murtaugh auto. Would PSA not grade it in that case or how would that pan out?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

They most certainly would authenticate it, but would make note of the clubhouse Murtaugh signatures (in addition to any other clubhouse signatures that may be on the balls). Of course, there's still good value there with all three Clementes being authentic, in addition to every other signature in the photos you shared. Someone else signing on Murtaugh's behalf was far more common than not during this era. While the two I can see in your photos were definitely written by the same person, there were at least a few different people signing baseballs on Danny's behalf back then! Actually, Pirates balls from the 1960's & 70's are notorious for clubhouse issues and are not limited to Murtaugh or the star players. Even the more obscure guys were targets. To find 3 with authentic Clementes is great!

The Pirates and Tigers were to clubhouse signed balls in the 1960's & 70's what the Dodgers were in the 1950's. To find a team ball completely devoid of any clubhouse autographs from these eras is quite rare indeed. The other teams all had some issues with this to a point, but it's been my experience that the teams mentioned were the most active at the time in this regard.

My advice would be to not pay extra for the grading (signature strength) if you're planning on having them authenticated. If you're selling them, just consign to an auction house like REA or Hunt and save yourself the time and money of having these authenticated. Auction houses Heritage and Goldin charge for the authentication, so I'd personally go with one of my two suggestions to avoid this.

[kemdawg]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

They most certainly would authenticate it, but would make note of the clubhouse Murtaugh signatures (in addition to any other clubhouse signatures that may be on the balls). Of course, there's still good value there with all three Clementes being authentic, in addition to every other signature in the photos you shared. Someone else signing on Murtaugh's behalf was far more common than not during this era. While the two I can see in your photos were definitely written by the same person, there were at least a few different people signing baseballs on Danny's behalf back then! Actually, Pirates balls from the 1960's & 70's are notorious for clubhouse issues and are not limited to Murtaugh or the star players. Even the more obscure guys were targets. To find 3 with authentic Clementes is great!

The Pirates and Tigers were to clubhouse signed balls in the 1960's & 70's what the Dodgers were in the 1950's. To find a team ball completely devoid of any clubhouse autographs from these eras is quite rare indeed. The other teams all had some issues with this to a point, but it's been my experience that the teams mentioned were the most active at the time in this regard.

My advice would be to not pay extra for the grading (signature strength) if you're planning on having them authenticated. If you're selling them, just consign to an auction house like REA or Hunt and save yourself the time and money of having these authenticated. Auction houses Heritage and Goldin charge for the authentication, so I'd personally go with one of my two suggestions to avoid this.

Such good info! Thank you so much!

[perezfan]

Stellar advice.... and whether you or the AH get them graded, DO NOT let Spence or PSA put their dumb sticker directly on the Ball. This mindless act will devalue the Balls, when a simple LOA will suffice.

I have passed on so many otherwise nice Balls, solely because they've been defaced with an ugly unnecessary sticker.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

They most certainly would authenticate it, but would make note of the clubhouse Murtaugh signatures (in addition to any other clubhouse signatures that may be on the balls). Of course, there's still good value there with all three Clementes being authentic, in addition to every other signature in the photos you shared. Someone else signing on Murtaugh's behalf was far more common than not during this era. While the two I can see in your photos were definitely written by the same person, there were at least a few different people signing baseballs on Danny's behalf back then! Actually, Pirates balls from the 1960's & 70's are notorious for clubhouse issues and are not limited to Murtaugh or the star players. Even the more obscure guys were targets. To find 3 with authentic Clementes is great!

The Pirates and Tigers were to clubhouse signed balls in the 1960's & 70's what the Dodgers were in the 1950's. To find a team ball completely devoid of any clubhouse autographs from these eras is quite rare indeed. The other teams all had some issues with this to a point, but it's been my experience that the teams mentioned were the most active at the time in this regard.

My advice would be to not pay extra for the grading (signature strength) if you're planning on having them authenticated. If you're selling them, just consign to an auction house like REA or Hunt and save yourself the time and money of having these authenticated. Auction houses Heritage and Goldin charge for the authentication, so I'd personally go with one of my two suggestions to avoid this.

+1 agreed

Great pickups by the way

Congrats

[kemdawg]

Wanted to send a quick update on this for anyone interested:
1. The 1960 ball came back from PSA as authentic with the exception of the Murtaugh (clubhouse signature)
2. The 1961 ball came back as authentic with the exception of the Murtaugh (clubhouse signature)
3. The 1962 ball came back as authentic with the exception of the Murtaugh, Haddix, Northey, Burgess, Groat and Neeman (clubhouse signatures)

The Clemente autos on all of them came back authentic.