Gil Hodges

[Snapolit1]

This article (I realize behind a paywell, but worth a subscription) totally depresses me. While Gil Hodges' cold numbers might be a step behind HOF numbers, he stood for everything great about baseball and by all accounts was a tremendous human being. Did a lot for Jackie behind the scenes. If the baseball HOF stands for everything good about the game and the guys who played it, and not just some number crunching bullshit by a bunch of computer geeks, it's a continuing embarrassment that he is not in Cooperstown.

Shouldn't the gold standard be character and what you did for the national pastime, and not WAR?

https://theathletic.com/2952952/2021...-fame-history/

I realize this has been debated many many times. It just sticks in my craw everytime it comes around and I read more about the man.

[commishbob]

Agree completely. I’m still baffled by his excursion from the Hall. It’s time for him and Minoso to get there.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by commishbob

Agree completely. I’m still baffled by his excursion from the Hall. It’s time for him and Minoso to get there.

+1 Agree hopefully they both get in finally and get the recognition they both truly deserve

[cgjackson222]

It seems like Hodges being Manager of the Miracle Mets should tip the balance in his favor and make him Hall worthy.

I think the issue people have is that he never lead the league in anything except Strikeouts and Sac Flys (and games).

I'd definitely like to see him get in, but the math may not be in his favor. Each member of the committee only gets 4 votes, and they may go for Minoso, Dick Allen, Tony Oliva, and Jim Kaat instead of Hodges.

[ThomasL]

He also played 6man football in High School so that puts him over the hump with me

[Cmvorce]

For the 52 Topps set I'm working on, I keep my HOFers slabbed and put the non-HOFers in the binder. My Gil Hodges is, and (regardless of voting outcome) will remain, slabbed. I think it's insane he isn't in.

[nat]

From the hall of fame's rules on voting:

"Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

The rules give no instructions on how these are to be weighted, but historically, integrity, sportsmanship, and character have been given almost no weight by the voters. The only notable exception has been the exclusion of steroid users. Excluding Hodges has been (and will be, if he doesn't get voted in) entirely consistent with the standards that are implicit in the hall's history of voting.

The way the ballot is structured also makes electing anyone hard. You're allowed to vote for a max of four, but the ballots usually have a bunch of guys who are all approximately equally qualified, and with a 75% threshold for election, that's an invitation to split the vote and not elect anyone. When one of the era committees does elect someone, it often seems that they had some particular rooting section in the electorate, who can rally votes in their favor, as reportedly happened with LaRussa and Reisendorf in getting Baines elected.

[skelly423]

It's always interesting that character can be used to exclude people, but it never seems to work the other way. Exceptionally high character never seems to push a 50-50 candidate over the top.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by skelly423

It's always interesting that character can be used to exclude people, but it never seems to work the other way. Exceptionally high character never seems to push a 50-50 candidate over the top.

Yeah, how about 3 years of military service including a Bronze Star in WW2. Might be a relevant fact to consider when you want to argue that a guy's numbers are a little light.

3 YEARS!!!! I know he wasn't the only one. Today, every time a player spends a few hours at a charity event his people are blasting it out to the universe.

[jingram058]

I look at it this way. There are guys in the HOF who probably should not be. And a lot of guys who aren't but should be. At the top of the list who should be, to me, is Gil Hodges. I personally think that the HOF does not matter to most people. But I feel, and have always believed frankly, that Gil Hodges ought to be in. My youngest sister (I am 63, she is 75), who knows something about baseball, told me that Gil Hodges was a household name, as much so as anyone. For him not to be in is ridiculous. I think if he doesn't get in this go around, he never will.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by skelly423

It's always interesting that character can be used to exclude people, but it never seems to work the other way. Exceptionally high character never seems to push a 50-50 candidate over the top.

Meet Ray Schalk. Lifetime .253 hitter with 11 home runs. Top RBI year he had 61. 1345 career hits. Never led the league in any offensive category. Managed 2 years, had losing records both times.

Good catcher defensively, but I would say that if not for the dishonesty of his teammates, and his good character in stark contrast, Schalk would be nowhere near the HOF.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Cmvorce

For the 52 Topps set I'm working on, I keep my HOFers slabbed and put the non-HOFers in the binder. My Gil Hodges is, and (regardless of voting outcome) will remain, slabbed. I think it's insane he isn't in.

Agree.... and on a related note, I think his '52 Topps card is one of the top 3 (aesthetically speaking) in the entire set.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Agree.... and on a related note, I think his '52 Topps card is one of the top 3 (aesthetically speaking) in the entire set.

Every thread needs a pic!

[Yoda]

Growing up, I saw Hodges play numerous times with my Dad at Ebbets Field, both of us being ardent Dodgers' fans. I remember one game clearly when he hit an opposite field homer over the old Schaffer Beer sign in right field. The ball seemed to soar endlessly. He was the perfect 1st baseman for Jackie, always encouraging and supportive. I don't know how many Golden Gloves he won, but it must be several. And he was a right hander playing 1st. Enough already, the man needs to be enshrined.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

heck one more

[perezfan]

Awesome photo!!

[Yoda]

I was fortunate enough to see Gil play several games at Ebbets Field with my Dad, both us ardent Dodgers' fans. I recall vividly one opposite field homer he hit over the old Schaeffer Beer sign in right field; the ball just keep on rising even after it had well-cleared the fence. He had leadership presence on the Diamond and was the perfect 1st sacker for Jackie, always encouraging and supportive. I know he won several Golden Gloves despite being right hander playing first.
Enough already. Dodger number 14 needs to be enshrined and let Gil out of the purgatory where he has languished for far too long.

[z28jd]

I've been at the Hall of Fame twice (I've been there six times total for reference) when groups of older Dodgers fans asked out loud where Hodges plaque was because they didn't see it. The first time I was with my dad and grandfather, and I mentioned that I didn't have the heart to tell them, and both of them had no idea what I meant at first because they both thought Hodges was in the Hall of Fame. I don't have a second example of a player that I heard that about while in the Hall of Fame. I take that as a sign from the people who saw him that he was a no-brainer to be inducted.

[JollyElm]

I think of my parents and their adoration for 'Dem Bums' and Gil Hodges in particular. They didn't care about things like The Hall of Fame, but in their (and countless Dodgers fans') hearts, he was unquestionably a HOFer.

[Exhibitman]

We only care about the HOF because election typically affects card value.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

We only care about the HOF because election typically affects card value.

For Hodges, and a couple others like Minoso, I think it's already priced in.

[Ben Yourg]

My neighbor is from NY.He was a toll collector,for 20 years
He worked on that bridge
He said any day , Gil Hodges stopped to pay the Toll,he would
ask the Toll collector "What's the name of this bridge?",
just for the fun of it.

[cgjackson222]

I know its already priced in, but I am still willing to buy '57 Minoso, '52 Bowman Minoso (white border), '55 Topps Gil Hodges, and '49 Bowman Gil Hodges.

Let me know if you want to let go of yours. Looking for high grade Minosos and mid-grade Hodges.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

We only care about the HOF because election typically affects card value.

Have to disagree here. Gary Carter getting in felt huge for me - could care less what it might do for his cards (not much).

[shagrotn77]

Gil Hodges absolutely deserves to be in the HOF and screw Ted Williams for robbing him of that honor years ago.

[tod41]

Once Harold Baines got in, any argument to keep Hodges out became moot.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, how about 3 years of military service including a Bronze Star in WW2. Might be a relevant fact to consider when you want to argue that a guy's numbers are a little light.

3 YEARS!!!! I know he wasn't the only one. Today, every time a player spends a few hours at a charity event his people are blasting it out to the universe.

Fact: I love Gil Hodges and I'm not ashamed to say it.

2 quotes by Jackie Robinson tell me my heart is on the right path:

#1 What Jackie said of Gil's passing: "next to my son's death, this is the worst day of my life".

#2 And this by Jackie "He was the core of the Brooklyn Dodgers."

Also, I've never talked about this in public or social media but I am floored to know and ashamed that I did not know that Gil was awarded the Bronze Star in Combat. It is literally the only thing I have in common with Gil. I was awarded the Bronze Star in Afghanistan 2010-11 US Army and it is one of the things I really covet in life.

Thanks Steve for bringing that to light.

Peace, Mike

[spec]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Fact: I love Gil Hodges and I'm not ashamed to say it.

2 quotes by Jackie Robinson tell me my heart is on the right path:

#1 What Jackie said of Gil's passing: "next to my son's death, this is the worst day of my life".

#2 And this by Jackie "He was the core of the Brooklyn Dodgers."

Also, I've never talked about this in public or social media but I am floored to know and ashamed that I did not know that Gil was awarded the Bronze Star in Combat. It is literally the only thing I have in common with Gil. I was awarded the Bronze Star in Afghanistan 2010-11 US Army and it is one of the things I really covet in life.

Thanks Steve for bringing that to light.

Peace, Mike

Mike,
Thank you for your service!

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by spec

Mike,
Thank you for your service!

Appreciate that, thank you!

Mike

[ThomasL]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Meet Ray Schalk. Lifetime .253 hitter with 11 home runs. Top RBI year he had 61. 1345 career hits. Never led the league in any offensive category. Managed 2 years, had losing records both times.

Good catcher defensively, but I would say that if not for the dishonesty of his teammates, and his good character in stark contrast, Schalk would be nowhere near the HOF.

GREAT defensive catcher which is why he really was elected...he was widely considered the best defensive catcher of that era....Now Dickie Kerr received a few HOF votes amazingly and that you could say was 100% due to being honest and a star in the 1919 WS

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Fact: I love Gil Hodges and I'm not ashamed to say it.

2 quotes by Jackie Robinson tell me my heart is on the right path:

#1 What Jackie said of Gil's passing: "next to my son's death, this is the worst day of my life".

#2 And this by Jackie "He was the core of the Brooklyn Dodgers."

Also, I've never talked about this in public or social media but I am floored to know and ashamed that I did not know that Gil was awarded the Bronze Star in Combat. It is literally the only thing I have in common with Gil. I was awarded the Bronze Star in Afghanistan 2010-11 US Army and it is one of the things I really covet in life.

Thanks Steve for bringing that to light.

Peace, Mike

Mike that's amazing. Thanks for your service!

[jingram058]

Read this, and you will swallow any negativity or doubt as to whether or not Gil Hodges should be in the HOF:

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/12/03/gi...n-hall-of-fame

[bbcard1]

I think in one of the most 2021 things ever, I expect one candidate who has no documentable qualifications to be elected to the Baseball Hall of fame with be chosen (O'Neil) because of intangibles and being a nice guy while another who clearly has the on-field qualifications and no taint of HGH (Schilling) will not be selected because he is not a nice guy.

Donaldson and Redding are much better Negro League candidates than O'Neil. I met Buck several times and he was an amazing man which is all that any one of us can hope to be, but you really have to do some mental and statistical gymnastics to make him a hall of famer. But it couldn't happened to a nicer guy.

[Snapolit1]

I may be getting soft in my old age, but I kind of feel like a guy who calls for the execution of journalists probably doesn’t belong in any hall of anything.

[Snapolit1]

Can’t find it, but there was a great Hodges story I saw once about some Mets player had to bail on an appearance one winters night at a Temple in Brooklyn and Gil caught wind of it and he and his wife got dressed and walked over so someone would be there to represent the Mets.

[jingram058]

When will it be decided?

I keep reading that he's on a ballot, but when will it be voted on or otherwise decided?

[egri]

Originally Posted by jingram058

When will it be decided?

I keep reading that he's on a ballot, but when will it be voted on or otherwise decided?

Per Wikipedia, the voting will be on December 5th, but it doesn't say when the results will be announced.

[keithsky]

Tied of the HOF making up committees all the time to get different people in the hall. If you didn't make it in the first 10 it's over. Just my 2 cents.

[Yoda]

Just one more nice, small nugget about Gil: I believe he is one of the few players ever to hit four homers in one game. If he isn't elected on this, I guess, his final go around, perhaps all Net 54 members should gather for one day in Cooperstown to protest his lack of enshrinement. Isn't that the great American way to demonstrate peacefully? I would go as I am retired and have bags of spare time. Aren't there some great card shops in Cooperstown?

[shagrotn77]

Originally Posted by egri

per wikipedia, the voting will be on december 5th, but it doesn't say when the results will be announced.

6:00 est.

[Tyruscobb]

If these players’ contemporary voters, who watched them play their entire careers, didn’t think they were hall-of-fame worthy, why should modern voters, who never actually saw them play, now find them worthy?

I agree there are exceptions, especially if racism or other factors kept a worthy player out, but if these factors weren’t present at the original time, modern voters should not reweigh these players’ worthiness worthiness when the contemporary voters, who were in the best position to decide, said no.

Just my two cents.

[Jobu]

Another Hodges photo.

[Jerry G]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Fact: I love Gil Hodges and I'm not ashamed to say it.

2 quotes by Jackie Robinson tell me my heart is on the right path:

#1 What Jackie said of Gil's passing: "next to my son's death, this is the worst day of my life".

#2 And this by Jackie "He was the core of the Brooklyn Dodgers."

Also, I've never talked about this in public or social media but I am floored to know and ashamed that I did not know that Gil was awarded the Bronze Star in Combat. It is literally the only thing I have in common with Gil. I was awarded the Bronze Star in Afghanistan 2010-11 US Army and it is one of the things I really covet in life.

Thanks Steve for bringing that to light.

Peace, Mike

Those are great quotes about a great man connected to a great game. Much more importantly, thank you to you and Gil for your "heroic or meritorious achievement."

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

If these players’ contemporary voters, who watched them play their entire careers, didn’t think they were hall-of-fame worthy, why should modern voters, who never actually saw them play, now find them worthy?

I agree there are exceptions, especially if racism or other factors kept a worthy player out, but if these factors weren’t present at the original time, modern voters should not reweigh these players’ worthiness worthiness when the contemporary voters, who were in the best position to decide, said no.

Just my two cents.

You would think this would be correct, but then you can find clear examples of oversights. The best one might be that Arky Vaughan had to go in through the veterans, and you can make an easy case for him being the second best shortstop ever still to this day, more than 35 years after he finally went in.

You may have only been talking about these particular guys, but we can find plenty of worthy 19th century players still and the people who covered them didn't get a chance to vote on them. An example would be Bill Dahlen, who SHOULD finally get in tomorrow. The guy ranks more valuable than Derek Jeter as a shortstop in NY, yet Jeter went in first ballot with all but one vote and all anyone can wonder is why he didn't get that vote. How about wondering why a better player who retired 110 years ago can't get in? That's why the veterans committee is necessary.

[JollyElm]

Here are a couple of things I created for the 'By the Numbers' section of my post-war 'Cards that Never Were' thread...

1972gilhodges03.jpg
1972gilhodges02.jpg

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

I agree there are exceptions

I agree with what you say about players' peers evaluations in their time and after for enshrinement.

However, I feel Gil Hodges is perhaps the most egregious oversight out there, the single most glaring exception.

[Snapolit1]

https://www.gilhodgesfilm.com/

[jingram058]

Here is a card I picked up a couple of years ago, one of those "art" or "what if" cards, supposedly produced in limited numbers. It is not vintage, but certainly looks like it is. I like it for what Stan Musial had to say about Gil Hodges.

[bbcard1]

His stats look light to me. While I appreciate his service, it was far from a sure thing he would have spent much if any time with the Dodgers during those years. He's in the Don Mattingly/Jason Giambi/Will Clark/Norm Cash range, basically Tony Perez light. It's not an egregious oversight nor world it be a head scratching selection.

[G1911]

Personally, I think Hodges is real borderline. Modern metrics, and comparisons to the league are not very friendly to him. A 120 OPS+ is not very impressive for a first baseman HOFer. WAR is not a good look. He never led the league in anything but games played and strikeouts. His most similar players are other guys who had a case, but didn't make the Hall. Not a single HOFer in his top 10.

I think he's right on the border, I'd probably vote for him on a combination of his playing and managerial resume (I would probably do this for others too, fine players who were good managers but haven't made the hall because usually one or the other is considered), but he's a bottom tier one for me.

I am, however, surprised he is not in the hall already. Beloved player, Miracle Mets manager, nice guy, huge fan base, Brooklyn Dodger from the 1950's. These things tend to push certain people in whose numbers by themselves aren't quite there, but it never has for Hodges.

If he was a 1B in Cincinnati or Washington, we wouldn't be having this talk.