Rip

[Yoda]

I often speculate about what-if scenarios and then see if any of these come to fruition. One of these centers around Zion W. and what would happen to his card prices if, heaven forbid, he was running down the street, tripped over his you-know-what, hit his head on the pavement and tragically died. I was trying to think of anything analogous in baseball. Roy Chapman? Naw.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jesus. WTF. You can't have meant to post this.

[soxinseven]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Jesus. WTF. You can't have meant to post this.

Peter, I'm shaking my head also.

[marzoumanian]

Where's Leon when you need him?!? Peace.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Yoda

heaven forbid, he was running down the street, tripped over his you-know-what,

Uhhhh, his shoelaces?

[jcmtiger]

?????????

[egri]

Isn't this the same poster who compared Goldin to Nazis?

[icurnmedic]

Not a cool post , whatsoever!

[Yankees1964]

C'mon, that's pretty classless.

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[HOF Auto Rookies]

What did I just read

[JollyElm]

What in the highness of heck does any of this mean????????? Asking for a friend everyone on the site.

[Klrdds]

I don't want to get in to a big back and forth but I think this is a dumb ass statement from the OP . I wouldn't expect this from someone with almost 900 posts .
Sorry if this is too blunt .

[jingram058]

Jeez, I thought I was the drama king.

[Jcfowler6]

We all are now dumber for reading this.


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[Casey2296]

Sometimes I wonder why we park in a driveway and drive in a parkway...

[BRoberts]

This is secondary, but it's Ray Chapman, not Roy. As for the overall post, you're a moron.

[Shoeless Moe]

...

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

...

Nice very nice

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I often speculate about what-if scenarios and then see if any of these come to fruition. One of these centers around Zion W. and what would happen to his card prices if, heaven forbid, he was running down the street, tripped over his you-know-what, hit his head on the pavement and tragically died. I was trying to think of anything analogous in baseball. Roy Chapman? Naw.

I think I understand where you might have been going with this but yeah it came out wrong. Some things should never be posted as comfortably as many of us do. We can forget that this crap is up here forever as opposed to a casual chat over dinner.

I do not know John...never met him but I think he might have been trying to be funny by exaggerating a scenario to ask a more on topic question of what would happen to card prices of a huge star who happened to leave the sport very prematurely for whatever reason.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I think he might have been trying to be funny by exaggerating a scenario to ask a more on topic question of what would happen to card prices of a huge star who happened to leave the sport very prematurely for whatever reason.

Trying to salvage a conversation out of this........................

For Clemente, who already had his 3,000 hits and place in the HOF assurred, the way he died adds to his popularity as a humanitarian and the value of his life.

For an emerging star like Lyman Bostock, I think it significantly hinders the value of his cards, as he didn't get the chance to make the most of his talent.

In 526 games and 2004 AB, Bostock hit .311, with 624 H, 305 R, 250 RBI, and 48 SB.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Trying to salvage a conversation out of this........................

For Clemente, who already had his 3,000 hits and place in the HOF assurred, the way he died adds to his popularity as a humanitarian and the value of his life.

For an emerging star like Lyman Bostock, I think it significantly hinders the value of his cards, as he didn't get the chance to make the most of his talent.

In 526 games and 2004 AB, Bostock hit .311, with 624 H, 305 R, 250 RBI, and 48 SB.

Agree. Generally speaking, guys whose careers are cut very short by tragedy or injury are not going to get credit for their potential.

[Aaron Seefeldt]

John, I hope you are feeling better. I know the last time we talked you mentioned health issues and I just want you to know that my thoughts and prayers are with you.

Now let's go have a steak dinner!

[Aaron Seefeldt]

Perhaps Addie Joss is/was a better example - dying at 31 of meningitis?

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Agree. Generally speaking, guys whose careers are cut very short by tragedy or injury are not going to get credit for their potential.

Who was the young pitcher for the Florida Marlins that died in a boat crash? I think he is a prime example.

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[Mark17]

Originally Posted by todeen

Who was the young pitcher for the Florida Marlins that died in a boat crash? I think he is a prime example.

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Tim Crews and Steve Olin.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by todeen

Who was the young pitcher for the Florida Marlins that died in a boat crash? I think he is a prime example.

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Jose Fernandez.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

To have a take of the post, it would be a buying frenzy for the first 24hrs. Prices will settle but still be higher

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I've wondered the same thing, but from an academic standpoint, not a humor standpoint. A better example than Chapman might be guys like Agajian or Hubbs, who still command a small premium to this day.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I've wondered the same thing, but from an academic standpoint, not a humor standpoint. A better example than Chapman might be guys like Agajian or Hubbs, who still command a small premium to this day.

Agganis you mean?

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Agganis you mean?

.I think he meant Agajanian , the place kicker....but in this thread , who the **** knows...

..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

.I think he meant Agajanian , the place kicker....but in this thread , who the **** knows...

..

Oh. Well in that case you could certainly add Harry Agganis to the list, tragically a perfect example of a young man taken very early.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Agganis you mean?

yeah, sorry the Golden Greek, yes. Weird fact his successor at QB at BU followed him to the Majors and died young (23) in a plane crash Tom Gastall. No card that I'm aware of but he did play a little in the Majors.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

yeah, sorry the Golden Greek, yes. Weird fact his successor at QB at BU followed him to the Majors and died young in a plane crash Tom Gastall. No card that I'm aware of but he did play a little in the Majors.

From what I've read Agganis' death might have been avoided with better medical care. Awful story. Always makes me think of the A.E. Housman poem.

[Jcosta19]

It was a bit before modern shiny stuff really took off but I'm sure someone could track what happened to Jose Fernandez prices, that tragedy still makes me sick to think about.

He was a real super star in the making and so young - similar to Zion (although not on the same level).

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[Jcfowler6]

Injury can be tricky.

I think of guys like Doug Dravecky losing an arm. That didn’t seem to help him in the long term. Maybe it did in some odd way. Some may remember him just because if that injury.

Roy Campanella gained much publicity and increased in fame due to being paralyzed I think . He was a much better player.

I think the teams market and the talent of the player that makes the most impact.

Death:

I always think of Clemente and Munson. Both are immortalized partly because of their early deaths but also because of talent.

You see many players die too young. Most slip into history.


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[MikeGarcia]

[QUOTE=Jcfowler6;2139372]Injury can be tricky.

I think of guys like Doug Dravecky losing an arm. That didn’t seem to help him in the long term. Maybe it did in some odd way. Some may remember him just because if that injury.

.

..it helps if , when you lose your leg in a hunting accident , they get Jimmy Stewart to play you in a movie....for you youngsters out there , this is Monty Stratton....

..

[drmondobueno]

Kenny Hubbs died young back in the ‘60’s. Way too soon, just a shocker to me as a ten year old kid. Made no sense then, today I feel the same.

[Seven]

I think the best example would be Fernandez, though Pitchers careers are defintely the trickiest. If you asked me 10 Years ago, which young Pitcher I thought would end up in the Hall, I would've said Lincecum, who rattled off two Cy Young's in his first three seasons.

Death of someone young is almost always tragic, never mind the sports impact, they had they're entire lives in front of them and then were robbed by either tragic accident or tragic illness.

Even the Players that had long, storied, careers only to die near the end or just after the end of them is terrible. Mathewson, and Gehrig come to mind in this case for baseball, a more recent example would be Kobe Bryant.

Mathewson was a young man when he died, just 45 years old, had so much more of life ahead of him. Gehrig's tragic health not only derailed his career but robbed him of his life. Both extremely successful in their given careers and both taken from this earth way too soon.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think the best example would be Fernandez, though Pitchers careers are defintely the trickiest. If you asked me 10 Years ago, which young Pitcher I thought would end up in the Hall, I would've said Lincecum, who rattled off two Cy Young's in his first three seasons.

Death of someone young is almost always tragic, never mind the sports impact, they had they're entire lives in front of them and then were robbed by either tragic accident or tragic illness.

Even the Players that had long, storied, careers only to die near the end or just after the end of them is terrible. Mathewson, and Gehrig come to mind in this case for baseball, a more recent example would be Kobe Bryant.

Mathewson was a young man when he died, just 45 years old, had so much more of life ahead of him. Gehrig's tragic health not only derailed his career but robbed him of his life. Both extremely successful in their given careers and both taken from this earth way too soon.

Ruth was 53.
Kirby Puckett was 46.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think the best example would be Fernandez, though Pitchers careers are defintely the trickiest. If you asked me 10 Years ago, which young Pitcher I thought would end up in the Hall, I would've said Lincecum, who rattled off two Cy Young's in his first three seasons.

Agreed. 5 years ago I would have argued Clayton Kershaw's trajectory was to be in the argument for greatest pitcher of all time. If he had aged like Scherzer or Verlander I think it becomes very difficult to argue against the idea. Because he's been fragile (though still pretty good when he takes the mound) I don't think he will enter the discussion for GOAT even though he may be the modern ERA leader when he retires while having pitched in one of the greatest hitter eras ever.

[molenick]

In terns of injuries, I think Mattingly's back issues hurt both his HOF chances and his card prices. At one point, his rookie card was the hottest thing in the hobby. And I never understood why Puckett was a first ballot HOFer and the most votes Mattingly ever received was 28%. I'll give Puckett a slight edge because he put up his stats as a centerfielder and was a major contributor to two World Series winning teams (and had a higher WAR if you care about that kind of thing 51.1 to 42.4). But the difference in them as players is not that great that one should be first ballot and the other not get close.

Interestingly, Mattingly is the most similar player to Puckett.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by molenick

In terns of injuries, I think Mattingly's back issues hurt both his HOF chances and his card prices. At one point, his rookie card was the hottest thing in the hobby. And I never understood why Puckett was a first ballot HOFer and the most votes Mattingly ever received was 28%.

Almost as crazy as Trammell making the HOF and Whitaker falling off the ballot in his first vote. Wait, nothing is that crazy.

[samosa4u]

I think the OP didn't word the whole thing properly and that's what got him into trouble at first. But yeah, I understand what you're asking.

In the hockey world, Connor McDavid is the greatest. I've seen people pay $50,000 USD for his rookie card, and I often wonder what would happen to his card prices if he suffered a career-ending injury or something like that. He has suffered some pretty nasty injuries in the past, but recovered from them. It's pretty scary stuff. Here is one below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bni6...nnel=SPORTSNET

[D. Bergin]

Ok, taking the question seriously. Using Zion as an example, I would assume it would have to be a younger athlete who had shown a lot of potential, accomplished a bit, but wasn't quite considered in his prime when he passed away.

There's so many factors to go into it, it's very hard to quantify. Even something like the circumstances of his death, could come into play where value is concerned. (ie. Pat Tillman).

Zion's cards are already priced based on his massive potential. I think in his case his cards crater within a year (unless it's an autograph issue), and then slowly start regaining their value as nostalgia and myth-making build on his legacy and potential.

In basketball, the only two examples that quickly come to my mind are two Celtics. Reggie Lewis and Len Bias.

Reggie was a very good player, but not a higher level superstar. He was pretty much what he was going to be when he passed at age 27. His cards are priced as such. Not a lot of premium there, from what I can see. Maybe a little bit, based on his untimely passing.

I don't think Len Bias had any contemporary card issues, but based on the prices of some of his memorabilia, he has built quite a following despite never playing an NBA game. He was a high, #2 overall pick, and considered by many to be the top guy in what became a historically weak draft year (at least in the 1st round. 2nd round had lots of gems). He was supposed to be the Celtics.......and the NBA's next superstar. If he had 1 or 2 cards come out, I'd guess they'd be doing fairly well right now.

In my field of boxing, the first two that come to mind are Les Darcy and Salvador Sanchez. Sanchez passed at 23 but was already a dominant Champion, and considered an All-Timer today, even with the very short career. His stuff has always commanded a premium.

Les Darcy was an Australian fighter who died at 21 and flashed a lot of potential against several top American fighters who fought him in his home country. He came to the United Stated in 1916-17 or so, in order to build up his name, and got sick and died before he could ever fight again.

He's always had a fairly strong following, but not nearly that of somebody like Sanchez, who had the chance to prove himself a bit more, before his untimely death.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Hank Gathers, another BKB example.